MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

Interview

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MADDOW: Joining us is New York Senator Chuck Schumer, who is vice chair of the Democratic Conference, chairman of the Senate Rules Committee. We`re hoping he can help clear up some of that alleged great confusion.

Senator, thank you for being here.

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Nice to be with you, Rachel.

MADDOW: What can you tell us is about to happen next? Are we actually heading toward 11 days from now that tax going up?

SCHUMER: Well, it`s possible but it may not happen.

Look, the Republicans have had bad day after bad day after bad day. Today was a terrible day for them. First, you know, Speaker Boehner promised to put the bipartisan 89-10 passed Senate bill on the floor of the
House. He couldn`t, because he knew it would pass. He knew there were 50, 60, 70 Republicans who would join all 190 Democrats to vote for it and it would pass by a large margin.

So, he puts together the subterfuge, which is send it to a committee. You don`t have to be in Washington to know if you want to kill something without fingerprints, you send it to a committee.

Republicans continue to desert Boehner. Today, three more major Senate Republicans said he ought to pass our bill, the Senate bill. Grassley and Wicker, conservatives from the heartland, Iowa and Mississippi. And Senator McCain said this is hurting the Republican Party.

And third and worst of all for them, I think they were hoping President Obama would sit down and say, yes, let`s negotiate. But the president saw what we`re all seeing, that this is a sham, that they really
don`t want to pass a payroll tax cut but don`t want their fingerprints on it. So, he broke into the press briefing that his press man John Carney was giving and was very unequivocal.

So, the bottom line is they`re stuck. And we have a solution for them, very simple solution. That is, pass the two-month extension that 89 senators, majority of Democrats and Republicans have agreed to, then we`ll talk about, we`ll negotiate -- seriously negotiate the rest.

And how can anyone believe that they want a one-year extension when they`re unwilling to pass a two-month extension? Particularly in light of the fact we just found out that the eight of the eight members of this conference committee, the sham conference committee, that Speaker Boehner appointed, five have issued statements against any payroll tax cut.

MADDOW: A majority of the --

SCHUMER: A majority of the committee. So, you know, Speaker Boehner, who I think is fundamentally a decent guy, but he`s letting, you know, the people at the extreme edge of his caucus lead him over a cliff. He`s not leading them. They`re leading him.

He`s in such a box. He`s tying himself in a pretzel. He has two choices, as a Republican leader was reported saying, he can either get a fat lip now. You know, they said, that`s colloquially term.

He can suffer some damage now by agreeing to a two-month extension immediately and then we`ll go try to, and I think we`d get a one-year extension. Or he can hold out, as you said, 160 million Americans lose
their tax cut, and he`ll just get clobbered.

The public is seeing through his shams. "The Washington Post" poll today said 50 to 35, the public supports Democrats, on a tax issue, which is usually not our strongest suit.

MADDOW: What do you think accounts for the difference between the political situation in the Senate and the political situation in the House for the Republicans? Because you did get a big majority of Senate
Republicans voting for this. You`ve got Senate Republicans openly criticizing House Republicans on this. And yet the House Republicans seem stymie and unable to move forward, unable to even allow it to come up for a vote.

SCHUMER: You know, I mean, there are some Tea Party types in the Senate, too, but they`re not as large a number. Far more importantly than that, Speaker Boehner has basically done whatever they have wanted. You have a small group who probably represent the 5 percent of America at the most extreme right sort of trying to run the country and Speaker Boehner lets the House of Representatives, which can block anything that happens, follow them.

And it makes no sense. But, you know, there is some justice in politics. I know the frustration we all have. And sooner or later it catches up with you. It began to catch up with them when the debt ceiling emerged.

And after that, Americans were beginning to smell why these folks are extreme. Now, it`s coming home in even much, much stronger colors because this is a tax cut. And Republicans have always been for tax cuts. Well, if you`re for a tax cut, just be for it.

And this idea that, oh, two weeks ago, we were against the tax cut, and now, we`re against it because it`s not long enough? It doesn`t pass the laugh test.

MADDOW: In terms of the damage that might be done here, let`s say that John Boehner is not able to get his conference to move forward on this. He now says they want the tax cut, but let`s say they cannot get it
together. And on January 1st, people`s livelihood changes. People start getting taxes taken out of their check that are not being taken out now.

The idea the payroll tax wouldn`t be extended at all has been estimated to have a very large economic impact.

SCHUMER: And that is, by the way, why the Tea Party folks really don`t want the payroll tax cut extended --

MADDOW: You think they want to hurt the economy.

SCHUMER: Well, I think anything, it`s almost, it seems anything the president`s for, they`re against. If it hurts the economy, they think it might help their electoral chances.

The problem with their argument is that it`s so transparent that they`re getting the blame. And when people favor, as the "Washington Post" poll showed, favor Democrats on tax issues over Republicans, that`s in part because we pushed hard on the tax on incomes over a million and in part because of this issue. They`re going to lose out and their strategy is not going to work.

MADDOW: There is a school of thought that when things don`t work in Washington, when a payroll tax that everybody says should be extended doesn`t get extended, that there is a broad brush with which blame is
applied. That people will just think Washington is broken, President Obama is in charge in Washington. Therefore, I blame him. The people won`t distinguish between the two parties on this.

SCHUMER: That has -- for the first six months or so when they were being extreme, I think that kind of thinking was predominant in the media and even among the American people, but because they keep doing it and doing it and doing it on such things as debt ceiling, payroll tax cut, it`s not going to continue.

And the president, starting in September, instead of just blaming all of Congress, he started blaming the Republicans where it belongs. And that`s had a real effect.

Here`s an example that affects us in the Senate since that has happened. In June, if you asked people, who do you prefer, Democrats or Republicans to run the Congress? Forty-seven, forty-one, Republican. Now,
it`s 46-43, Democrat.

That`s a huge change in six months. All because I think people are realizing that these hard right, hardball tactics are hurting the country.

MADDOW: Senator Chuck Schumer of New York -- it`s always nice to have you here, sir. Thank you. Appreciate it.

SCHUMER: Thank you.

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