Fox News The Big Story With John Gibson - Transcript

Fox News Network

SHOW: THE BIG STORY WITH JOHN GIBSON (17:00)

September 23, 2004 Thursday

HEADLINE: Interview With Trent Lott and Gregory Meeks

GUESTS: Trent Lott, Gregory Meeks

BODY:

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

GIBSON: Joining us now with the Democratic response to Allawi's speech, New York Congressman Gregory Meeks. Congressman, the big question: do you believe Allawi or do you think he was just trying to back up President Bush?

GREGORY MEEKS, DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN, NEW YORK: Well, to tell you the truth, I think that the President's speech writers did a good job trying to write the speech. I couldn't tell the difference between what he stated and what the president talked about the other day. They were very similar.

If you listen to what the President said a short while ago and then listen to what Allawi said, it's almost the same speech. He's a good man, we welcome him, but here's a difficult situation. And what the American people really want is the truth. And the President told us...

GIBSON: Yes, but Congressman, this is a guy who Saddam Hussein tried to kill in his bed, sending guys in with axes to cut him up. He's very bravely facing the insurgents in Iraq. And what you're saying now is he's a stooge for President Bush, electioneering for him.

MEEKS: No, what I'm saying is, clearly this was geared toward being a rally for President Bush-it was. And I'm saying that if you look at the speech that he made and at the speech the President made a couple days ago, you'll see it's basically the same thing.

What I'm also saying...

GIBSON: Well, the truth is the truth, isn't it?

MEEKS: And what I'm also saying-that's what we want is the truth.

The President said mission accomplished and that was several months ago. Clearly the mission's not accomplished.

GIBSON: Come on, Congressman, come on, let's get real. That was way before there was an insurgency. The President isn't going around saying mission accomplished now. I mean that is an unfair, cheap shot and you know it. You know what he was saying right now. Why is that so different than what Allawi is saying, or for that matter, what John Kerry says needs to be done?

MEEKS: The President said that it was a catastrophic success. He said that recently.

GIBSON: Tommy Franks invented that phrase to explain what happened after he won so fast. It wasn't the President's phrase; it was General Tommy Frank's phrase.

MEEKS: John, he also said in a moment of candor with Matt Lauer on another network, that he didn't think we could win.

GIBSON: Oh, come on, Congressman! You would think this is a serious...

MEEKS: These are words out of his mouth.

GIBSON: I know that's what he said, but you know that the meaning you're giving it is not what he meant.

You know that, Congressman.

MEEKS: John, and he just said today again in the Rose Garden, he talked about how the American people know that here we're going in the wrong direction. That was another mistake that they've made.

GIBSON: Congressman, what are you suggesting? Are you saying we should abandon Allawi?

MEEKS: Oh no!

GIBSON: Pull our troops out? And then say, "We didn't do the right thing this was the wrong thing to do. We're going home."?

MEEKS: Not at all. I'm not suggesting that at all. We should not move out...

GIBSON: Well, what are you suggesting?

MEEKS: I'm saying that the President is taking us in the wrong direction.

GIBSON: What is the wrong direction?

MEEKS: When we have a leader-the job of a leader is when they're going in the wrong direction is to be able to stop and say...

GIBSON: Wait a minute. Congressman, believe me, when you say the President's going in the wrong direction, all I've heard from John Kerry is, "We've got to win, win, win." How is that so different from what the President is saying, Congressman?

MEEKS: John, John, John-we've got a coalition of the billing, not the coalition of the willing, because even with the coalition that you have there, if you take South Dakota, it would be the seventh largest-the state of South Dakota, there aren't more people there-the seventh largest coalition partner that we have in Iraq.

GIBSON: Congressman, that's Daschle's line, you can do better than that.

MEEKS: Number two; this is not the war on terror. This is the war against Iraq. A war that was chosen by the President of the United States.

GIBSON: What are you saying? Seriously, Congressman. If you're saying all of your criticism is right, are you still saying we should stay there and win?

MEEKS: No. That's right. And we got to know how to win. We don't want to lose. The way Bush is leading us...

GIBSON: What's the way to win? What's the way to win, Congressman?

MEEKS: The way to win is the first is to sit down and make sure that we do have more allies. President Bush was at the U.N. the other day; didn't have time to talk to any of these world leaders so that we could get more people in there.

GIBSON: Congressman, are you serious?

MEEKS: The way to win is to have security there. Let's train...

GIBSON: Do you think France and Germany are coming in?

MEEKS: Let's train the Iraqis.

GIBSON: What do you think they're doing?

MEEKS: We were told 2,000 were trained first. Then we found out it was not 2,000 at all; 20,000, rather. We were told it was 9,200. Now we find that not even they have been training. We want the truth. We keep hearing different stories.

We got different stories why we went to Iraq in the first place. There was one reason: imminent threat, weapons of mass destruction, an imminent threat at first. That has changed. We want the truth. The American people deserve the truth. We can handle the truth and then we can get on the right path.

GIBSON: The truth is I'm out of time.

Congressman Gregory Meeks, it's always good to talk to you, thanks for coming in.

Coming up on THE BIG STORY: a new campaign ad making waves. The Bush team using one of Kerry's hobbies to highlight his changing views on Iraq.

Then, a new Fox poll shows the race for the White House is still too close to call. But the president is gaining ground with a key voting group.

Plus CBS document scandal not only a black eye for the network, but could it signal the downfall of the so-called "old, elite media."