MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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SCHULTZ: Joining us tonight on THE ED SHOW, Vermont Independent Senator Bernie Sanders. Senator, good to have you with us tonight. Who are the winners? Who are the losers? How do you call it right now?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Well, the American people are the winners and the Republicans are the big losers. Look, as you`ve just indicated, Ed, what is amazing, at a time of strong political division in
America, on this issue, the American people are united. Every single poll that I have seen says that the American people understand that when the richest people are becoming richer and their effective tax rate is the lowest in decades, they`ve got to pay more in taxes to help us with deficit reduction.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

SANDERS: We have all of these loopholes out there for corporations so that they can make billions in a year and pay not a nickel in taxes. You have to deal with that as well. And many Americans understand we have
tripled military spending since 1997. We`re in two wars that the American people want out. You have to take a hard look at military spending.

SCHULTZ: Senator, is --

SANDERS: So the Republicans -- yes --

SCHULTZ: Go ahead, go ahead. So Republicans what?

SANDERS: So the Republicans who defend these positions of more tax breaks for the rich, they are way out of line with what the average American believes.

SCHULTZ: Well, it`s all about revenue to the Republicans, no question about it. But if they had agreed at some level to give us some revenue from the one percent down the road, would that have really brought a fight within the Democratic caucus, because what was on the table, according to John Kerry, was cuts to traditional programs that millions of Americans for generations have depended upon. And the Democrats, I think, are there to defend them. What about that?

SANDERS: Well, I think you`re right. It would have brought about an internal debate within the Democratic caucus. My view has been Social Security has not contributed one nickel to the deficit, because it`s paid
for by the payroll tax, has 2.5 trillion dollar surplus. I will continue to fight to make sure that we do not cut Social Security, and tell people who are living on 14,000, 15,000 dollars a year, who are getting older,
getting sicker, that they have got to be the people that do deficit reduction.

When you got 50 million Americans, Ed, who are uninsured today, medically uninsured, you don`t cut Medicaid or Medicare. There are a number of us who believe that and will defend those programs.

SCHULTZ: So it seems to me that this was a discussion that the Democrats were willing to have at a later date, but they just wanted to prove the American people there`s no way Republicans are ever going to
serve up any more revenue from the one or two percent to try to fix our financial problems in this country. What about that?

SANDERS: Well, I`ll tell you, frankly, Ed, if I were a Republican, I would not be a happy camper having to go back to my state or my district and say, look, yeah, I`m in favor of cutting Social Security, Medicare and
Medicaid, but you know what, I want to give more tax breaks to billionaires, I want to protect corporate loopholes for large corporations. And you know what, maybe we should spend more money on the military.

That is not a position I would like to defend because I think the vast majority of the people in this country disagree with those ideas.

SCHULTZ: How do you think Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has played all of this? Has he proven his worth in gold by putting Democrats on the super committee that just would not cave on the big three?

SANDERS: Well, I think Senator Reid has done a very good job in making sure, in fact, that in this instance Democrats do not cave; they protect the needs of the middle class and working class of this country.
And I think that`s the right thing to do from a public policy point of view. And I think he has isolated the Republicans who now have to defend an absolutely untenable position.

SCHULTZ: Republicans say President Obama wanted the super committee to fail. Here`s Senator Marco Rubio of Florida. Here it is.

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SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: I do believe there`s a political strategy involved here. And I certainly think the president would like to run against a do-nothing Congress.

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SCHULTZ: What about that? Do you agree with him?

SANDERS: No. I don`t think the president wanted this committee to fail. None of us wanted the committee to fail. What the president wanted is some justice here. He wanted to do what the vast majority of the
American people wanted him to do, and ask the wealthiest people and large corporations, who up to this point, Ed, have not contributed one nickel toward our deficit reduction.

That`s what the president wanted. He was right. The Republicans on this issue are way out of touch with ordinary Americans.

SCHULTZ: Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, always a pleasure. Thank you, senator. Appreciate your time tonight.

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