ABC "This Week with Christiane Amanpour" - Transcript

Interview

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AMANPOUR: Americans right now are watching yet another scene of dysfunctional government play out here in Washington. After all else failed, the super-committee was conceived as a bipartisan solution to America's debt woes.

Right now, though, it's poised on the brink of failure. Still, freshmen senators Marco Rubio of Florida and Chris Coons of Delaware, a Republican and a Democrat, are trying to sow hope in this gloom. They've put together a jobs plan that they believe everyone can support. It's called American Growth, Recovery, Empowerment, and Entrepreneurs Act, also known as AGREE. They say it's small, but it's a start, nonetheless.

I spoke with Senators Rubio and Coons earlier.

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AMANPOUR: Senators, thank you very much for joining me. Let me ask you first, Senator Rubio, you have said that this is not an earth-shattering bill that you're proposing. Just how many jobs do you think it will create?

RUBIO: Well, we're not claiming to know that number. We know it will be more than what we have now, and that's what's important. This helps real people. These are ideas that came from job-creators. Some of it's extending existing law to give another year of certainty to job-creators. And others are things that are new that came, for example, from the Franchise Association.

But we believe that one of the things that's holding back economic activity is all the bad news and impending bad news that's coming out of Washington. And we feel like if we can show people that there are things we can work on together, that there is a glimmer of hope in Washington, that we are able to agree on the things we agree on, we hope to be able to get the ball rolling on a little bit of confidence over the next 12 months.

AMANPOUR: All right. Well, let me ask you, Senator Coons, a little bit of confidence is what's needed here. Obviously in the Senate, Senator Reid holds the card, in terms of bringing -- bringing it to vote. Is there any indication that you have that he would embrace this AGREE Act of yours and actually act on it, bring it to a vote?

COONS: Well, Christiane, we've gotten very positive responses from folks in leadership, from the White House, and obviously from our colleagues, a number of whom have already stepped forward to offer co-sponsorship. We drew these ideas from a broad range of sources, but most importantly, from the president's jobs bill, as well as from the President's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness. I think this is a balanced, bipartisan, constructive package of ideas that can help move the economy forward. And I'm confident that Leader Reid wants to make -- make whatever progress we can in moving legislation that will help create jobs.

AMANPOUR: But bottom line, Senator Rubio, if something as innocuous as this -- and you're both saying that it is, really, a simple thing that everybody has already sort of agreed on, the elements of it, if this can't get through, what kind of message does that send, Senator Rubio?

RUBIO: Well, that's -- that's exactly right. And that's our point. Our point is that there is no reason for this not to pass.

You know, I think people at home, certainly here in Florida, and I'm sure across the country, understand that there are big differences between Republicans and Democrats, and they understand that's why we're going to have an election next year to decide that. What they don't understand is, why do you guys fight about the things you agree on?

And so what we did is we just sat down and went and tried to collect a few things that we -- people had agreed on in a bipartisan way said at least let's pass those. We can't sit around for 12 months and do nothing. And so that's -- that's what we're hoping to do here. But you ask a very important question: If something like this can't get traction, if something like this can't pass, what does it say about our process?

AMANPOUR: Well, precisely that. And you both have said that this is not a substitute for the really large reforms that have to happen and perhaps we'll have to wait for the next election. Do you agree with that, Senator Coons? Is nothing big on reform and deficit-cutting and all of that going to happen until the next election?

COONS: Well, we have been able to make bipartisan progress in this Senate, although it's not widely known, things as broad as the patent bill, as the free trade agreement, as the recent bill on veterans jobs. We have been able to get some things through.

But I'll agree with your question that on the larger issues about how to tackle the deficit, how to deal with getting jobs created in this country and how to get our fiscal house in order, there seems to be a persistent divide between my party and Senator Rubio's party.

We have a difference of opinion. And in my view, my party is the one that continually advocates for everything on the table, for a broad and balanced solution that includes revenue, as well as considering entitlements. And as long as we can't get to some agreement about how to put everything on the table and how to tackle a bigger package, I do think we're going to have to wait for the next election for a clear single from the American people about what value they put on protecting our commitments to America's seniors and the most vulnerable in our country who currently rely on entitlement programs as a critical part of supporting them as they move through life.

AMANPOUR: Senator Rubio, Senator Coons just talked about revenue. And, of course, all of this is at play now in this super-committee. And by all accounts, there's a huge amount of pessimism. People do not believe the super-committee is going to actually come up with what it said it was going to do. Do you agree with that, by the way, both of you? Do you think that this is not going to work, Senator Rubio?

RUBIO: Well, first of all, I never thought the super-committee was a good idea. And, second of all, I hope it does work out, because so much is at stake.

But I want to say something, actually, in defense of the Democrats on the super-committee. And I blame the White House for a little lack of leadership on this. I mean, the White House has never indicated to them how far they can go on making concessions, how far -- for example, on entitlement reform. And I think it's very difficult for the Democrats on that committee to enter into a negotiation not knowing where the White House is. They don't want to get their legs cut out underneath them if they agree to some entitlement reform measures that later on the White House decides they don't want to support in an election year.

AMANPOUR: Senator Rubio, do you agree with what many in your party say publicly, constantly, that President Obama doesn't, in fact, want this super-committee to succeed, wants it to fail in order to be able to run against a do-nothing Congress?

RUBIO: Well, again, I hate questioning people's motives, but I do believe that there's political strategy involved here. And I certainly the president would like to run against a do-nothing Congress, but I hope that doesn't stand in the way of meaningful legislation, particularly out of the super-committee.

AMANPOUR: Senator Coons?

COONS: I have to remain confident that there are folks in both parties who want to put Americans back to work, who want to deal with our deficit, and who want to do it in a responsible way. We need to pay attention to the 99 percent of Americans whose economic picture has not gotten brighter in the last decade, who haven't really deeply benefited from the significant tax cuts that were enacted under the previous administration.

And we have to look at a fiscal solution that will put everything on the table, that will get our economy moving again, and that'll put a floor under the real anxiety out there in the world. I think if we can focus on the broader challenge, which is finding at least $4 trillion in the next decade in savings, in deficit reduction, stabilize our debt, deal with our deficits, we can strengthen our economy. If it simply stays a zero-sum game, a fight between no defense cuts or no reforms to entitlement, no raising taxes, or no increase in revenue through comprehensive tax reform, no investment to grow our economy, we will simply continue to sink as a country. And we will risk, I think, a double-dip recession.

AMANPOUR: One of your fellow senators, Corker, a Republican, recently said if this super-committee -- if this Congress cannot come up with $1.2 trillion in deficit cutting, then that's a complete failure of leadership, and it -- he said we deserve to be downgraded. That's quite an indictment. Do you think you deserve to be downgraded if it doesn't work?

RUBIO: I understand the point he's making. And the point he's making is that it would be an indictment on our political process and on the unwillingness of the political class in America to deal with these significant issues that, by the way, didn't crop up overnight. These issues have been going on for a while. We knew this day was coming. And we know what lies ahead. We need to look no further than Europe to understand what lies ahead, unless we take these issues seriously.

AMANPOUR: Senator Coons, deserve to be downgraded if this doesn't work?

COONS: Well, I'm -- I'm certainly hopeful that all of us in Washington will take very seriously the caution that we've gotten from the bond-rating agencies. What's unfolding in Europe ought to be really concerting to everybody in this country.

Right now, Greece and Ireland and Iceland and other countries in Europe have a math problem. Their economies can't possibly produce enough surplus, enough revenue to deal with their debts in the short term.

Today in America, we have a leadership problem. But we still have the opportunity to right our ship, to make the bipartisan compromises we need to, to get our economy back on track by dealing with the very significant challenges that face us in terms of the size of federal spending and the absence of enough federal revenue, where if we can just get past the partisan divides, if we can make some broad and responsible compromises, we can fix our books, we can get on the right path, and we can strengthen our economy in a way that would allow us to grow forward.

AMANPOUR: Senator Chris Coons, Senator Marco Rubio, thank you very much, indeed, for joining me.

RUBIO: Thank you.

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