Fox News "Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace" - Transcript
Interview
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REP. JAMES CLYBURN, D-S.C.: Thanks for having me.
WALLACE: Before we get to the Democratic plan, I want to ask you the same question I started with Pat Toomey. Where do things stand right now? Where are the negotiations and what do you think of the realistic chances you'll get a compromise within 10 days?
CLYBURN: Well, I'm very hopeful that we will. And I feel very comfortable that we will. I am not as certain as I was 10 days ago, but I think that, again, we've got 10 days to do this, and I really believe that all of the ingredients for a good resolution are there. We just need to build the will.
WALLACE: There had been talks -- speaking of will -- about because the committee is charged with coming up with $1.2 trillion in deficit reduction. But there had been talk about going way beyond that, a grand bargain, $4 trillion. Is that now off the table?
CLYBURN: Well, I hope it's not because I am $4 trillion guy. I do believe that we can do this. In fact, I think in order for us to be fair and balanced -- if I might use that term --
WALLACE: Go ahead, sir.
CLYBURN: -- we ought to go to a big deal. That way, we can do enough job creation in a resolution that will allow us to do some tough calls, surgical fixes to entitlements. I would love to see us put together a big deal that will increase the possibilities of 75- year solvency with Social Security. And you cannot do that with a little deal. You got to have a big deal to do that.
WALLACE: All right. Let's talk about the Democratic plan. It isn't specifically yours, but this is the Democratic plan that's on the table. It offers a dollar in spending cuts to every one dollar in revenue increases. Now, the Bowles-Simpson commission that was appointed by President Obama, offered a three to one ratio, three dollars in spending cuts for every one dollar revenue increase.
I guess my question is: isn't the deal that's on the table now much less attractive to Republicans than the president's own panel?
CLYBURN: Well, you know, that's a Democrat's plan. It's not the Democratic plan. There are six Democrats on this committee and though I have a great deal of admiration and respect for all of them, the fact of the matter is, Democrats have not coalesced around a plan.
WALLACE: Well, that's a problem right there, 10 days out, that the Democrats don't have a plan.
CLYBURN: Well, the Republicans don't have a plan. I think we are there to develop a bipartisan plan. And that's why it's six and six. And I do believe we can get to a bipartisan plan.
We've got to get realistic about these so-called tax increases. How do you define closing the loophole as a tax increase is beyond me? The fact of the matter is, if you got someone who is supposed to be paying 30 percent, 35 percent in taxes, yet can find loopholes not to pay anything in taxes. And so, it's fair -- unfair to close that loophole. I don't quite understand that.
WALLACE: But that's not if I may
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WALLACE: Wait, wait, Congressman, that's not the typical situation. Let's say you are fortunate enough to be in the 35 percent bracket and let's say you take a mortgage deduction on your home. Now, if instead of getting the full value of that deduction, you got 2/3 of it, you are paying more in taxes. That's a tax increase.
CLYBURN: Well, that's not all that we are talking about here. We are talking about the loopholes that allow you to go down to zero in taxes. And I think it is unfair for us to sit out an say to a person who is making billions of dollars, we're going to allow a tax increase or decrease of another $300,000 a year while we are then going to take away Medicare for people living on fixed income. That is just not fair.
We ought to be saying let's find a balanced way to do this and let's say to those who are fortunate enough to be in the upper 1 percent, who had 275 percent increase in their earnings over the last 28 years, let's say: come on - let's tone this down and put you where you were 28 years ago relative to the rest of the country.
WALLACE: OK. Let me ask you about one other thing which the Republicans say it is unfair about the Democrats.
You -- well, this is not your plan. The Democratic plan that is out there would count hundreds of billions of dollars in savings from winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that would be applied to entitlements, things like that. Isn't that a classic Washington budget gimmick, to count savings on money that was going to be spent anyway?
CLYBURN: That is not. And, in fact, that's much more realistic then this so-called pro-growth economy which --
WALLACE: Well, I'm asking you about this though. Counting money from wars that weren't going to be fought?
CLYBURN: We believe and the CBO believes that there is around $917 billion to be saved over the next 10 years from the overseas contingency account. And we ought to count that.
We ought to use that savings to plow it back in to fix Social Security, that will allow it to be sovereign for another 75 (ph) years, to plow it into job creation programs that would get people back to work, and paying taxes, and off of food stamps and off of unemployment.
WALLACE: We've got about 30 seconds left. And I'm not saying that you are right or Pat Toomey is right, but I've got to say, watching the two of you today, it doesn't sound like there is any progress at all. I mean, you're talking to the Democratic talking points, he's sticking to the Republican talking points.
CLYBURN: About two-thirds of what Pat Toomey has put on the table I am for, I'll tell you. And that may shock you.
What I'm not for is trying to count something that CBO will not score. The legislation is very clear, we've got to come up with a plan that CBO will score, not that Pat Toomey will dream about. And it's a dream, I believe, that if you do this and if you do that, it will create all this dynamic growth. Dynamic scoring is not the way to do that. Let's put down the actual numbers, tax cuts, tax increases, entitlement cuts, and entitlement increases. And let's find a fair and balanced approach.
WALLACE: Love that phrase.
CLYBURN: I know you do.
WALLACE: Congressman Clyburn, thank you. Thanks for updating us on the talks. It sounds to me like you guys have a lot of work to do in 10 days.
CLYBURN: Yes, we do, but we've got a lot of time.
WALLACE: OK. A lot of time?
CLYBURN: We have 10 days.
WALLACE: All right. Thank you, sir.
CLYBURN: Thank you.
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