CNN "American Morning" - Transcript

Interview

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Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa is the ranking member of that committee. He joins us live from Capitol Hill. You know, I have to tell you, I hold in my hand a transcript of a presidential radio address, Senator, talking about waste, fraud, abuse and mismanagement except this is dated 1984.

I think you were my senator from Iowa even back then. It is President Reagan. He is calling it an unchecked cancer of a monster that we need to get under control. Thirty years later, can you believe we are spending $16 for a muffin?

SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: When you consider that Washington is an island surrounded by reality and it is easier to spend other people's money than your own money and you realize that families in Iowa would not pay $16 for a muffin and it is done in Washington.

It isn't right. It is ridiculous, but it is one of those things that's happened and what it calls for is to put more restrictions by Congress on how the executive branch can spend money. Now, can we cover everything in an appropriation bill? Probably not because you expect a lot of common sense out of bureaucrats that are spending the money.

Evidently the message is getting through because I believe that the president overnight put out some sort of a message that somebody high up in agency was supposed to approve conferences now so that ridiculous things like $16 muffins doesn't happen again.

ROMANS: You are right, it has -- high levels have to approve this kind of stuff now.

COSTELLO: But Senator, as Christine said, we have been dealing with this problem since at least 1984. Yes, maybe there are new rules coming down the pike. But I mean, what can you say to the American people to make them believe those new rules will actually be put into place and they will be followed?

GRASSLEY: Yes. Well, listen, I said that you ought to have more restrictions on appropriation bills and it is my responsibility to help put some of those there, but will it get done? I don't know and if you put those restrictions in, there's still a great deal of leeway.

So that you -- appoint to the common sense of people making these decisions and I don't know that there is any way that I can guarantee you and I wish I could guarantee you that mistakes won't be made like this in the future.

But it is one of these things that in this period of austerity now where we have a select committee on debt reduction, a joint committee, and bipartisan committee made up. It is one of the first things that they ought to look at when you got a $1.6 trillion deficit.

ROMANS: It's always trendy to say waste, fraud, abuse, we have to clean out the waste, fraud, and abuse, everyone says they want to do it but it never gets squeezed out, which makes the American people, I would say, rightly cynical that you can raise taxes to raise revenue or you can cut spending only to raise receive new. You know, I mean, people just look at government and don't believe that our elected officials can fix it because we are still spending $16 on a muffin.

GRASSLEY: Well, remember, elected officials have the power and can put a lot of restrictions on exactly how that money ought to be spent. But it is still going to be spent by the executive branch of government, and Congress is making decisions in September for the next 12 months of the fiscal year. And it is going to take some common sense of unelected people within the bureaucracy to make sure that the money is spent according to law.

COSTELLO: Senator --

GRASSLEY: You can -- go ahead.

COSTELLO: Senator, should someone be fired?

GRASSLEY: Unless people are fired, and heads roll, you never get changes made. I made that statement so many times maybe for a lot of things -- lot more serious than $16 muffins. But the answer is unless heads roll, there isn't going to be any changes made.

ROMANS: What is the culture in Washington that allows this kind of stuff happen? What's the culture that allows -- there's just so much money that's flowing so freely and it is borrowed and not -- belongs to us. We borrow it from China and from ourselves. What is the culture that makes that appropriate?

GRASSLEY: There is a culture of elitism. And one of the reports coming from the inspector general said why do you spend this kind of money for conferences? That isn't just the muffin, the whole conference. And they said well, because of the political appointees and the senior executives, just because they are, quote, unquote, "somebody of high level," you know, then they expect it.

Well, it is that sort of elitism and the culture in Washington that we ought to encourage elitism, that's wrong. In other words, we ought to bring some of the common sense, the grassroots of America to Washington and in a democracy and representative government where I work for the people of Iowa. They don't work for me. Or the bureaucrats work for the people, the taxpayers. The taxpayers don't work for them. It is that sort of attitude that has to be changed if things are going to be changed in Washington.

ROMANS: So if firing is the only thing that will change that sort of culture, who wields the ax?

GRASSLEY: Well, Congress can't fire people. So it has got to be the president. That's where the buck stops. He delegates it to other people. And somebody in the senior core of executive got -- has to decide we are not going to spends $16 for muffins, and anybody that does is going to be fired.

COSTELLO: Senator Chuck Grassley, thank you for joining thus morning. It was pleasure.

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