CNBC Kudlow & Cramer - Transcript

CNBC News Transcripts

SHOW: Kudlow & Cramer 5:00 AM EST CNBC

HEADLINE: Senator Susan Collins discusses the bill she's introduced to create the new post of national intelligence director

ANCHORS: LARRY KUDLOW

BODY:
LARRY KUDLOW, co-host:

Senators Susan Collins and Joe Lieberman introduced a bill today to create the new post of national intelligence director. Just a few moments ago, I spoke with Senator Collins and asked her if it was possible for big bureaucracy to catch Osama bin Laden?

Senator SUSAN COLLINS (Republican, Maine): We've taken great pains to make sure that our bill really is going to improve America's intelligence capabilities. The 9-11 Commission documented very thoroughly that there was a failure of communication among our intelligence agencies and that there was no one really in charge. So one of the most important changes in our bill is to establish a national intelligence director who can marshal the people, the money, the resources to pursue threats such as Osama bin Laden.

KUDLOW: Henry Kissinger has said, while he supports reform and intelligence, putting both domestic and international intelligence under one player creates a czar that is too powerful. How do you respond to that?

Sen. COLLINS: There are legitimate concerns that have been raised about having an individual be responsible for both the foreign and domestic side of the intelligence. But we know from the failures that helped produce 9/11 that part of the problem was that no one connected the dots across that divide; that the FBI had critical intelligence information that wasn't shared with the CIA and vice versa. So I think we can structure the system to make sure there are civil liberties protections, and that includes a new board that would be charged with protecting civil liberties, and we can improve our intelligence structures without compromising the values that define us as Americans.

KUDLOW: In terms of the national intelligence director, so-called, can you structure this so his or her term is staggered over the course of a presidential term to depoliticize this office, maybe in the manner the Federal Reserve Board works?

Sen. COLLINS: We've given a lot of thought to whether the individual should serve at the pleasure of the president or have a fixed term. Originally I thought we should structure this position so that it was more like the FBI director, a fixed term perhaps as long as 10 years. But the testimony at our eight hearings-and we heard from over two dozen witnesses-was decidedly against that. This individual is going to have to serve as the principal adviser to the president. It's important that there be a good relationship there. And I've concluded, as has Joe Lieberman, that the person should serve at the pleasure of the president, but not be located in the president's office so that there is some distance to ensure independence.

KUDLOW: Are you at all concerned with regard to Defense Department-related intelligence? We already have an undersecretary for intelligence in the Defense Department. Are you worried that this new intelligence czar might interfere with intelligence that goes directly into the military commanders in the field?

Sen. COLLINS: We've drafted our bill very carefully to make sure that there's no lessening or diminishing of the intelligence that's provided to support our troops. That is absolutely critical. And for that reason, we left under the Pentagon's full control what is known as the tactical intelligence agencies. Those are the service-specific agencies. We're not going it take those out of DOD. They're responsible for providing real-time intelligence to our war fighters, to the troops on the ground. And we don't want to do anything to diminish that.

KUDLOW: So the undersecretary for intelligence at DOD, will-that slot will be maintained in the Pentagon or will it be moved over into this new intelligence operation?

Sen. COLLINS: We decided to maintain it in the Pentagon. I think, however, that having a national intelligence director and a Counterterrorism Center will actually improve the quality of intelligence that DOD gets, but we're not affecting in any way the tactical intelligence that our troops rely on.

KUDLOW: All right. Let me just switch gears a little bit. As you know, Congressman-or former Congressman Porter Goss is going through his confirmation hearings in the Senate. First, let me ask you, do you anticipate that Mr. Goss will be confirmed?

Sen. COLLINS: I do.

KUDLOW: And, secondly, after he's confirmed, where will the CIA fit in this new intelligence structure?

Sen. COLLINS: The head of the CIA would report to the national intelligence director. So Mr. Goss, assuming he's confirmed today-I absolutely believe that he will be-would report to this new position.

KUDLOW: All right. Now, insofar as spying is concerned or what we sometimes call human intelligence, so many people say the ultimate solution over the next few years is to get as many covert operatives as possible involved in the war on terror. What is your take on that and how will the new intelligence czar function in that?

Sen. COLLINS: I think it's evident that we have slighted the human intelligence. We've relied very heavily on our satellites, on electronic methods of surveillance. But it's so important when you're dealing with terrorism to have people who are able to infiltrate these groups, so we do need to put more emphasis on that. One of the ways that a national intelligence director would help solve this problem is to have the ability to move personnel across the 15 intelligence agencies, to make maximum use of the special analysts that we have and those who are able to be involved in covert operations. And I think that flexibility will ensure that we get a greater bang for the buck and that we're able to put the resources where they're most needed.

KUDLOW: Senator Collins, this last question, do you and Senator Lieberman expect to report this out of committee for an actual floor vote on the Senate before the election takes place?

Sen. COLLINS: We surely do. That is our goal. And I'm really delighted to be able to achieve a bipartisan bill with Joe Lieberman. He's been terrific to work with. Our committee is going to mark up the bill next week. I hope all will go well and that'll be approved by the end of the week and then the majority leader, Bill Frist, has scheduled it for floor action beginning the week of the 27th.

KUDLOW: You know, Senator Collins, if you engineer this successfully, and I suspect you will, you're going to be famous. You're going to go down in the history books.

Sen. COLLINS: Well, it's a great honor to have been given this responsibility by our leadership and I'm just determined to make it happen. I really think this matters to our national security. The stakes are high and it's going to be one of the most important things that we do in this Congress.

KUDLOW: Senator Susan Collins of the great state of Maine, we thank you for coming on KUDLOW & CRAMER.

Sen. COLLINS: Thank you, Larry.