MSNBC "Andrea Mitchell Reports" - Transcript

Interview

Maryland Congressman Chris Van Hollen, Ranking Member of the House Budget Committee, today appeared on MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell Reports to discuss the ongoing debt ceiling negotiations. Video of the interview is available here and the transcript is below.

ANDREA MITCHELL, MSNBC: Maryland Congressman Chris Van Hollen, Ranking Member of the Budget Committee. Thank so much. What are we hearing now? We are hearing things are fluid, Paul Ryan just told me a few moments ago that there are constructive elements out there. There are conversations. He thinks everyone is serious about avoiding a default. The New York Times is reporting some coming together on terms between the President and Speaker of the House. What can you tell us?

REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: I think that's generally correct, other than the fact you continue to have a fairly large contingent of House Republicans who think that it would not be so bad if the United States didn't pay its bills and defaults on its debt and that continues to be a wild card. I do think that the leaders, both in Congress and of course the White House and both political parties are trying to find a solution here, and the focus remains, Andrea, on trying to get a grand bargain, even as talks go on about a Plan B. There is still serious discussion about trying to get something big done.

MITCHELL: Well, one of the things that Kent Conrad said earlier today on "Morning Joe" was that even a six-month deal in order to provide enough time to get that grand bargain together, if you can agree on the outline, it still takes months really for the Congressional Budget Office to score anything. So can something be done to avert the likelihood of a default after August 2nd and then work out the details later? Will people sign on to that?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, you could conceivably do that but I think that it would be a mistake to, for example, just lift the debt ceiling for six months. I think we need some certainty in the economy and I don't think that that provides it. The President made the same point several weeks ago when he said that a very short-term deal that only allows us to pay our bills for six months and puts us back in the same spot after -- that doesn't really do it. Better that we try and agree to the overall outlines now. Yes, you could spend time to fill in the details, but again, how you structure this kind of agreement to make sure that both parties see that it's balanced is a critical piece from the Democratic side, that's a very tricky thing to put together. That's what the focus is on now.

MITCHELL: One of the things that Paul Ryan also said was that he doesn't see any daylight in the possibility that it wouldn't be a violation of the no tax pledge of Grover Norquist, no tax increase pledge to let the Bush tax cuts expire. What has been the impact of Grover Norquist and that no tax pledge on all these negotiations?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, it's been very significant, because Republicans have taken the position that I think is out of step with most of the American people -- that you cannot raise one penny of revenue from closing corporate tax loopholes. Whether it's oil companies or corporate jets or whatever it is, you can't do that for the purposes of reducing the deficit, and the President put on the table a plan that calls for $3 in cuts to every $1 in revenue to try and get to a ten-year, $4 trillion plan. But because of Grover Norquist's pledge, Republicans seem to be more worried about him than they are about reducing the deficit, and that has been an impediment and we're hoping that maybe we can see a breakthrough there. You need a breakthrough if you're going to get a balanced approach and you need a balanced approach if you're going to get a big deal.

MITCHELL: Is Nancy Pelosi -- are you Democrats going to be able to provide enough Democratic votes to help John Boehner out as he tries to pull this together, even despite the opposition of those freshmen who are so rigidly against any compromise?

VAN HOLLEN: Well Andrea, we have made very clear, number one, that America has to pay its bills. These are bills for things that we have already voted on, Democrats and Republicans alike. No American family can wake up one day and say I'm not going to pay my bills or I'm just going to pay my mortgage payment but not my car payment. You can't do that. Number two, we will support a balanced approach to reducing the deficit. We have to reduce the deficit. The question is how. And we believe it has to be a balanced approach, which is where this issue comes in with respect to Grover Norquist, which is that if Republicans take the position that you can't get one penny to reduce the deficit from closing corporate tax loopholes, however big or small it may be, you can't get that balance. So yes, we're prepared to be definitely part of the solution in making sure America pays its bills. Definitely part of the solution in terms of having a long-term solid deficit reduction plan. But we won't take something that's extreme. I mean, we won't, for example, accept the Republican proposal that they passed in the House the other day that says we are actually going to amend the constitution of the United States to make it easier to cut Medicare and Social Security, which they say you can do with a majority vote. But if you want to close a corporate tax loophole for the purpose of reducing the deficit, they would write into the Constitution you need two-thirds vote for that. In other words, writing into our constitution itself a bias in favor of cutting education or Medicare rather than cutting corporate tax loopholes. We're certainly not going to subscribe to that totally unbalanced approach.

MITCHELL: Chris Van Hollen, thank you very much.

VAN HOLLEN: Thank you.

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