CBS "Face the Nation" - Transcript
Interview
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Bob Schieffer: And for the other side of the story, one of the top Democrats in the Senate, Chuck Schumer of New York. Senator, thank you. Well I guess I'll start by asking you - are you as optimistic here as Senator McConnell is?
Senator Charles Schumer: well look, let's put it like this: I feel a lot better today about the ability to avoid default than I did even yesterday morning, and default would have such disastrous consequences to our nation for a decade to come. The fact that the Leaders are talking, even if, I'm sure, hardly anyone agrees with everything they're going to come up with, is a good thing.
Schieffer: what's going to be the hardest thing for you to sell democrats? For example, as I understand it, this committee that's going to be formed would have the authority to make major reforms in Medicare and social security. I know everybody agrees something has to be done on both those programs. Are they going to be willing to let a committee have that authority?
Schumer: well, at the end of the day of course, the Senate will vote up or down on whatever the committee recommends. Now, we Democrats have believed all along that we should not cut benefits to Medicare and Medicaid. Can savings be wrung out of the waste and inefficiency in the system without cutting benefits? Yes. Our Republican colleagues seem to want to decimate those programs. The Ryan budget tried to do that, but of course we were able to stop it. So there's going to be a lot of tough decisions on the committee, the committee has no restraints on it, we will fight very hard for revenues on that committee, if it should come to exist, but we will be very adamant that there shouldn't be benefit cuts in Medicare.
Schieffer: But I would think one of the hardest things for you to sell your members is that if this committee cannot agree on cuts for these various programs, any program, then triggers - this will set off a trigger where there will be automatic cuts in these programs and also in defense spending.
Schumer: well the trigger's still being constructed and nothing is done yet -there's lots of decisions yet to be made. The key with the trigger is one word: equality. It should be equally tough on Democrats and Republicans. The tough part on the Democratic side, if we don't come to an agreement there will be cuts in programs that we like - helping middle class kids go to college, prescription drugs. On the Republican side, we believe that the trigger should have revenues, potentially, so that they would have to do things they hate like close tax loopholes for oil companies and corporate jets. Another one being talked about is very significant cuts, equal cuts really, on the defense side of the ledger as well as the domestic side of the ledger and uh, back a few years back those kind of cuts importuned Republicans to go along with revenues, I think under the George Bush era. So the trigger will be tough but if its equally tough it gives a real chance to produce the kind of things we believe America needs.
Schieffer: I Know that Senators don't normally like to talk about the House and House members don't like to talk about the Senate but its going to be tough to get this through the House and after what we've seen over there last week, they want a lot more over there it seems to me than is going to be in this deal. How do you, what makes you and Senator McConnell think you can get this through the House?
Schumer: Well, I'm not sure. First we haven't seen it yet. Leader Reid and Democrats in the Senate have not signed off on this deal, we don't even know what all the details are so we're not yet ready to try and urge anybody to even be for it. One thing that the House Republicans seem to insist on, short term only kick the can down the road 3-4 months, the President and Democrats, House and Senate have been insistent that is no way to go. We have to get enough increase in the debt ceiling so it goes past 2012 because otherwise the markets will downgrade us possibly, and all we'll be doing is having this same fight over and over again when jobs and helping middle class families is our number one concern and we want to focus on that. So the House is going to have to swallow that, I think, without question.
Schieffer: Well it sounds like Senator McConnell is ready to do that.
Schumer: well, you'll have to talk to him
Schieffer: We did..
Schumer: obviously, we have to have a longer term because its just counter productive and devastating to the nation to have shorter term and I think we'll prevail on that, I do.
Schieffer: You say you don't know exactly what's in this, who does? I mean, Senator Reid, the President?
Schumer: It's not that we don't know what's in it, a lot of things haven't been determined yet. The trigger, as I mentioned, is essential, we're going to insist that it be equal. And both the White House and Democrats, Senate and House are fighting for revenues to be in that trigger, certainly that is the preferred alternative, tough, equal defense cuts might work, we'd have to see how it looks.
Schieffer: What are some of the other things that haven't been determined yet? I'm just trying to figure out where this is.
Schumer: We feel very strongly that Medicare should not be cut in terms of benefits and there shouldn't be benefit cuts in the trigger. There's that, Republicans always want to cut Medicare wherever they can and we believe it has to be a more focused approach on the kind of waste and duplication without hurting beneficiaries. But there are hundreds of details here and all of them have to be worked through and obviously it has to be done very quickly to avoid default, which is the nightmare for everybody.
Schieffer: I just asked Senator McConnell this. I want to get your take on this, too. What do you think has happened to Washington? Senator McConnell said well, Jefferson and all of that, and that 's obviously true, but I must say, I've been here 42 years and I've never seen it like it is right now.
Schumer: Well I think you eluded to it when you asked Senator McConnell. I haven't seen anything like the sort of new group of sort of hard right people who believe compromise is a dirty word. When you have divided government, as I believe Senator McConnell pointed out, you have to compromise. They have said, for instance, many of them that it's OK for the nation to default. Now that just flies in the face of logic. We know what would happen. We know that our credit rating would go down, we know interest rates would go up, and the very deficit we all hate, including them, would go up. We know that average families would pay more than a thousand dollars in interest increases on their mortgage, on their car loan, on their credit card rates. So for people to come here and say it's OK to default, it sort of defies imagination and I think this group of hard right, which I have to say is not a majority of the republican party, has added an element here that in my 37 years as a legislator, I have never seen. Because it just seems when there are facts that everyone else agrees on, they just say no.
Schieffer: You would admit that there are some on the left...
Schumer: Yep...
Schieffer: That are just as hard and fast.
Schumer: There are and that is true. But what I would say is that democrats have shown that throughout this debate, a willingness to compromise. I mean the mirror image of what they do, no revenues, we should say no cuts and we don't do that so there are people on the left who would probably say no cuts, but they haven't been able to have their way within our caucuses. Whereas this hard right group seems to get its way all the time. You sort of get the feeling Speaker Boehner wishes he didn't have to go along them, but ends up going along with them. The proposal they sent to us that said you had to pass, not just put on the table, but pass the budget amendment that needs two-thirds vote otherwise we default, guaranteed default. It was wacky.
Schieffer: So you're saying the republican party is sort of being held hostage by these people?
Schumer: Well in a certain sense, that's, I'm not in that House Republican caucus. I don't know if they'd let me in. I wouldn't want them to but they wouldn't. But that's how it seems to be that a smaller group is dictating. Whereas in the past, the majority within the caucuses was able to have more sway. Hopefully that will change.
Schieffer: Alright well senator it's always a pleasure to have you here too.
Schumer: Thanks.
Schieffer: I hope you'll come back soon.
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