MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

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SEN. MARK WARNER (D), VIRGINIA: And I"m not going to call you "Chris." I"m not going to call you "Chris." Don"t worry.

MATTHEWS: Well, you can call me anything, just don"t call me late for dinner, as we used to say. Let me ask you this. Are you hopeful that we could--your "Gang of Six" can ride in and save the people from the attacking enemy?

WARNER: All I can tell you is this is the first time we"ve seen a bipartisan plan that includes revenues, that really is comprehensive, that"s bipartisan. It isn"t perfect, but when the alternative is we"re going to drive this country over the cliff, I think we got to start with something that actually gets the job done, that gives us that comprehensive approach. And the fact that we had a whole lot of Democrats and Republicans yesterday saying, yes, I"m ready to at least move to the next step, was a good sign.

MATTHEWS: Well, not to look a good--a gift horse in the mouth, why does now work for you? Why did Tom Coburn, who my kids thing is great, by the way--young people who read "Rolling Stone" and all, they just love this guy--why is he--why did he come back to the team? Why is the team of rivals working?

WARNER: Well, Chris, I wish we would have had this plan out three months ago, so it could have been fully vetted and attacked from every side, which we"re getting some of those attacks today. But you know, we are where we"re at. I wish it would have been earlier. You"ve been around this place. Sometimes it"s a little wacky.

But we got to realize we"re what, 13 days away from a default. We"re 13 days away from an indirect tax increase on every American when their interest rates skyrocket and the government can"t pay its bills. We"ve got to be responsible, get something done. And if we can build this into some of our process into the debt ceiling, if we can make sure that this ought to be at least a starting point for the conversation--remember, this has got revenues.
It"s got an approach that says defense spending has to take its hits, as well as just hitting domestic spending. And I think it"s a good starting point.

MATTHEWS: OK, July 20th, as we speak, August 2nd coming around the bend. How do you get--let"s go through the groups. How do you get the House Democrats to go along with at least participating in getting 218 if Boehner will let this come to a vote?

WARNER: Well, we went over and talked to a lot of the House Democrats today. I think they were generally optimistic. They see that if we simply do something where we do a trillion dollars in cuts and no plan, we"re going to be back where we are today 6 or 8 months from now with a new starting points and even deeper cuts in entitlement programs and domestic discretionary programs.

We got to make sure anything we do now counts towards a larger deal, and that"s--and they say, Hey, this makes some sense. The House Republicans--I mean, I think they"ve asked for things that are comprehensive. This is a comprehensive approach. But I can"t make a prediction about that part of the body.

MATTHEWS: I feel like we"re dealing in the Middle East now, it"s so hard. But how about this? Will this plan work? You"ve got your plan for $4 trillion, most of it spending cuts, some revenues. You got it agreeable to a group--a bipartisan group. You go to the House Democrats, they say, OK, we"ll agree to the following. There will be a separation of the debt ceiling issue, a divorcing, a decoupling of that from the spending cut package and all that stuff. So you get an agreement in principle from both sides that as part of getting the debt ceiling hiked up and avoiding a bankruptcy, that there will be this down the road fairly soon legislation to do the $4 trillion package?
Is that the idea? They"ll be decoupled, but not in principle.

WARNER: Chris, that would be extraordinarily reasonable, but I work in a place that"s not always reasonable. We"ve got to first and foremost make sure we deal with this debt ceiling in a responsible way. We don"t want to do anything with our so-called "Gang of Six" plan that messes that up.

But we"ve got to keep our momentum going forward. In a reasonable world, what you suggested would work, but I"m not sure where we"re headed. I"m anxious to hear from when those--the guys get back from the White House, literally right now.

MATTHEWS: I get the feeling--I mean, everybody I work with, all the producers who are part of our brain trust, who put together the show every night--everybody--I don"t want to speak for everybody--seems to think that Boehner really wants to reach some kind of reasonable compromise which tilts to the conservative side, but it doesn"t shut out the Democrats. They get some piece of the action. Is that your view?

WARNER: Yes, that"s my understanding from every report I"ve heard from the White House, from the fact that anybody that can read a balance sheet realizes you can"t solve this problem on simply one side of the ledger, on simply the cut side. You got to have revenues, as well. You got to give confidence that the economy"s going to come back so the $2 trillion sitting on the sidelines can actually start getting reinvested, creating some jobs.
So I think--everything I"ve heard is the speaker"s willing to be reasonable on this.

MATTHEWS: OK, we saw the market go up 200 points yesterday when there was good news coming out of your "Gang of Six."

WARNER: Right.

MATTHEWS: You"re a businessman Democrat. That"s an interesting hybrid.
WARNER: Yes.

MATTHEWS: You"re a businessman who"s a Democrat. How does getting this thing dealt with effectively in the next week or so help get the market back on track, get consumer confidence and business investment going? How does it connect?

WARNER: Well, let"s face it, over the last few months, whether it was the near shutdown of the government, the whole Congress has looked pretty not up to the job. If we can put a plan in place that"s going to say America"s going to balance its books, even over a 10-year period--remember, corporate America has done pretty well over the last two years. They"re sitting on $2 trillion in cash.

They"ve been saying too much uncertainty. Let"s give them the certainty that we"re going to get our fiscal act together and then they won"t have an excuse about not investing that money back in this country. I would be willing to take that message to them real strongly. It"s time. If we do our part, you"ve got to do your part, as well, and start hiring folks.

MATTHEWS: Well said, Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, member of the "Gang of Six."

Joining me now is U.S. Congressman Mick Mulvaney. He"s a Republican from South Carolina. Sir, thank you. Is your position personally, as a U.S. congressman, that you have to have the measure that was passed by the House yesterday as part of any debt ceiling increase?

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