MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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Clearly, Senator, there was a tone change by the president from the press conference last week and what we heard today in a statement that I have to say really wasn"t that meaty. It was kind of like running it up the flagpole to see which way the wind is blowing.

Was there a change in tone? What was your impression?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: I have no idea, Ed. But what I do know is you"re absolutely right when you quote polls that say overwhelmingly the American people believe it is insane, it is wrong, it is absurd to balance the budget, to do deficit reduction on the backs of working families, elderly people, children, the sick and the poor.

The wealthiest people in this country today are doing phenomenally well. And yet their effective, their real tax rates are the lowest in 50 years. Corporate profits are soaring--and yet you got major corporation after major corporation making billions of dollars in profits paying nothing in taxes--sometimes getting a rebate from the IRS.

SCHULTZ: What was your response to Bill Clinton? He was at a think tank over the weekend out in Aspen, at Ideas Festival. He said we ought to lower the corporate tax rate. What do you think of that?

SANDERS: I don"t think so. I mean, I know--I don"t think so. I think what you want to do is do away with all these loopholes--you want to do away with the absurdity of losing $100 billion a year because these corporations and wealthy people are putting their money in Bermuda or in Cayman Islands, other tax havens and avoiding taxes in the United States.

You want to end the absurdity of people getting tax breaks for throwing American workers out on the street and moving abroad.

We now have--we have, just in the last weekend, over 100,000 people went to my Web site, Sanders.Senate.gov. They signed a letter to the president that said, "Mr. President, stand tall, don"t cave. The American people are behind you when you talk about shared sacrifice and not balancing the budget on the most vulnerable people in this country."

SCHULTZ: So, why isn"t he doing that? I mean, I didn"t hear anything about shared sacrifice today.

(CROSSTALK)

SANDERS: Get him on your show. I don"t know why. I really don"t know why.

But I do believe that if this president stood tall, went all over the country, we could put the Republicans on to the defensive, because all over this country, in red states and in blue states, people are calling up their Congress people and their senators and saying, it is insane to be talking about cutting Medicare and Medicaid and nutrition when we have the highest rate of childhood poverty in the industrialized world with so many people are unemployed. Ask the people on top to become Americans again.

SCHULTZ: All right.

SANDERS: To join the American society.

SCHULTZ: The president said today that he is against a short term deal. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I"ve heard reports that there may be some in Congress who want to do just enough to make sure that America avoids defaulting on our debt in the short term, but then wants to kick the can down the road when it comes to solving the larger problem of our deficit.

I don"t share that view. I don"t think the American people here--sent us here to avoid tough problems. It"s, in fact, what drives them nuts about Washington, when both parties simply take the path of least resistance--and I don"t want to do that here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)\

SCHULTZ: And where do you stand on that, Senator? I mean, is it worth a short-term deal to make sure we do pay our bills?

SANDERS: You know, everything is in the details. I mean, of course, you want a long-term solution. But the question is, what"s that solution going to be?

SCHULTZ: Yes.

SANDERS: What the letter that I wrote said is that half of the deficit reduction should come from the wealthy and large corporations. If the president is prepared to fight for that, let"s make that a long-term deal.

SCHULTZ: Senator, good to have you with us tonight. Thanks so much.

SANDERS: Good to be with you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: For more, let"s turn to Van Jones, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress and the president of Rebuild the Dream.

Van, good to have you with us tonight.

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