MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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SANDERS: In the Dodd/Frank financial reform bill, the CFTC was required, not asked, required to deal with speculation. They were required to do that in January. We are now in May and they have not yet done that.

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ROBERTS: Senator Sanders is asking President Obama to get tough on the CFTC. In a letter to the president last month, the senator wrote, "I urge you to make it clear to the CFTC that they must obey the law and establish strong oil speculation limits as soon as possible. I would also urge you to ask for the immediate resignation of any CFTC commissioner who refuses to obey the law and nominate someone else who will."

Now, according to a Senate aide, senators asked Chairman Gensler to implement emergency powers to crackdown on oil speculators, but he declined to do so. And we asked the CFTC why it won"t use these emergency powers, but a spokesman did not give us an answer in time for this broadcast tonight.

And joining me now by phone is Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

Sir, it"s good to speak with you once again.

SANDERS (via telephone): Good to be with you.

ROBERTS: All right. So, you"ve said that the CFTC is violating the law and you"re calling for the resignation of its members. So, are your requests falling on deaf ears? And do you think you"re going to get anywhere with that request?

SANDERS: Well, I think we will. I think when you have the CEO of ExxonMobil--this is ExxonMobil--telling us that perhaps 40 percent of the price of oil today is due to speculation, when you have Goldman Sachs itself, and they are major speculators, suggesting that the price of oil has 20 percent effect because of speculation, we recently learned that in 2008 when we also had an oil spike the Saudi Arabian government told the U.S. government--told Bush administration, that there was not a need for more oil production, that the reason the prices were so high was because of speculation.

When you have all of that, I think the answer is that we have got to crackdown on speculators who control now about 70 percent of the oil futures market.

ROBERTS: Senator, you asked Chairman Gensler to use emergency powers though on oil speculation back in 2009. This is after that 2008 oil spike that you just talked about.

So, do you know why the CFTC won"t use these powers if they will cause the price of oil to drop and do so considerably?

SANDERS: Well, there are two issues. The chairman himself has in my view the power to--has the capability to use emergency powers. He refuses to do that. I guess it"s too bold an action for him.

What he--my understanding is they think they don"t have the votes. There are five people on the commission. They only have two votes in order to begin to address the issue.

My view is they have got to raise the sense of urgency. The president has got to become involved in this issue.

But the vast majority of the people believe this has something to do with supply and demand. It doesn"t. More supply less demand.

We have required the CFTC to act. They"re not doing it. The president must demand that they do that.

If they don"t do it, those guys should leave office. Other people should assume that position and fulfill what the law requires.

ROBERTS: Sir, we"ve been told by a Senate source that Chairman Gensler said as much as 85 percent of trading in the energy market is done by speculators, and yet he also said that he doesn"t know if speculation is driving prices. So, in your mind, how did those two statements square with one another?

SANDERS: They"re absurd. I think when you have over 80 percent of the oil futures market controlled by speculators--these are the Wall Street guys, who do not use the product.

They"re not in the airline business. They"re not in the trucking business. They"re not in the fuel business.

They are simply driving up prices to suggest on the part of Mr. Gensler that he doesn"t know what the prices are going up or down because of the speculation to me is a totally absurd remark.

ROBERTS: So, instead of all of us depending on the CFTC, why can"t we depend on you guys because the bill to curb energy speculation passed back in 2008 by a vote of 402 to 19. So, why isn"t there broad bipartisan support for such a bill any longer?

SANDERS: Well, that"s a very good idea and there may well be. I think what the general feeling was that as a result of Dodd/Frank, the Wall Street reform act, these guys were required to act. We thought that was good enough.

OK. They did not act. What"s plan B? And plan B I believe is that the Congress has got to bring forth legislation to force them to act.

ROBERTS: If we see the prices going down, though, modestly as we"re seeing right now, sir, does it take the heat off just a bit?

SANDERS: It shouldn"t because the whole issue--it really shouldn"t. There has been extraordinary volatility over the last three years of oil prices. Gone up, gone down, gone up.

This is not doing--this is not a result of supply and demand. This is an issue we have to get a handle on or else it will simply keep repeating itself.

When oil in my state, when gas in my state is $3.85 a gallon, which is a rural state, we are a rural state, people travel long distances to work, this is really taking a bite out of their paycheck. This is an issue that"s affecting millions of millions of working people. It"s affecting our entire economy. We got to deal with it now and we have to make sure that it doesn"t happen again and again in the future.

ROBERTS: Is this something that has President Obama"s attention?

SANDERS: He has talked about it occasionally, but I don"t think with the urgency it requires. No. I think if the president got up and said, you know what, we"re going to deal with this speculation. We"re going to deal it with now. We"re going to deal with it tomorrow--that would happen. He hasn"t done that.

ROBERTS: What would bring the urgency, the oil spike we saw in "08?

SANDERS: You know, when gas is at $3.82 a gallon or close of or--was over $4 a gallon in many parts of the country, I think that is a sense of urgency. When we know this is threatening, when the price of oil is threatening the fragile recovery that we"re in right now, this is--requires a sense of urgency. I wish the president was stronger on this issue.

ROBERTS: Senator Bernie Sanders from Vermont--sir, it"s always good to talk to you. Thanks for joining us tonight.

SANDERS: Thank you.

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