CNN "State of the Union with Candy Crowley" - Transcript

Interview

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CROWLEY: Appalling and indefensible. But are they insolvable equations?

Today, the congressional impasse over taming a ferocious U.S. debt with the Senate's number two Democrat, Dick Durbin.

Mideast promise and peril with leaders of the intelligence committee, Chairman Mike Rogers and ranking member Dutch Ruppersberger.

And then presidential politics right and left with Republican Dick Armey and Democrat Ron Klain.

I'm Candy Crowley and this is State of the Union.

We begin this morning here with a budget impasse in Washington. Joining me from Chicago, one of the five remaining members of the Gang of Six, Democratic Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois.

Senator, thanks for being here. Let me just ask you right off the bat, do you have any indications that Senator Coburn will come back?

DURBIN: No, we don't. I hope he will. But here's what it boils down to, after more than four months of intense negotiation, we followed the bull Bowles-Simpson deficit commission guidelines. We put everything on the table, and we cut the deficit by more than $4 trillion over 10 years. We were ready to announce as far as I was concerned and then Senator Coburn said no, I'm not part of this and then walked away.

The question is whether senators on both sides of the aisle, Democrats, Republicans will step up and say don't stop. We need to do this together. We need to sacrifice and make concessions on both sides if we're ever going to solve this national problem.

CROWLEY: Now Senator Coburn in his op-ed hit the senate itself pretty hard, as others have -- by the way, The Washington Post had an article about the, quote, "do-nothing Senate." Senator Rand Paul is talking about how the Senate doesn't do anything. Certainly there have been fewer votes to this point this year than there were last year.

And here's some of what Senator Coburn said when he was arguing, just put the darned budget on the floor, put deficit reduction on the floor. Let's work it out, let's have a big public airing of what's going on. And he said this in that same op-ed, "if we continue to avoid tough choices we will lose control of our economic destiny and go down in history as the Senate that lost America. Our epitaph will read never before in the field of legislating was so much ignored by so many for so long."

This week that we're ending up, the Senate voted on something it knew would not pass and that is taking away loopholes for oil companies. Next week the Senate is going to vote on two things, we think, that will not pass -- the Ryan budget plan, as well as the president's budget plan. Why bother? Why don't you all just get out on the floor and do something that matters, that will come to something?

DURBIN: Well, we should. And we will. Just remember, when Senator Harry Reid, the majority leader, called the small business research bill, which was really a bipartisan from the start, it broke down on the floor because everyone wanted to offer amendments, particularly from the other side, on unrelated issues. So that's been a problem.

But here is the bottom line, Candy. If we're going to do our job, we have to do it together. Democrats can't do it alone, Republicans can't do it alone. That's what I hope...

CROWLEY: But you know they say that, too, Senator Durbin. And it just gets so frustrating I think for people to watch this because Sunday after Sunday, I have people come on and they go, we've got to work together and if the Democrats would only do this and the Democrats come on and say if the Republicans would only do that. And meanwhile you keep taking votes on things that aren't going to pass. DURBIN: But Candy, what we need this week is for a bipartisan group of senators to step up and tell us, now the Gang of Five, we want to sit down with you, we want to proceed with you in a bipartisan way to deal with this deficit.

We have the framework, not only the Bowles-Simpson commission, but the work we've done, we should not abandon all the work we've put into it, it needs to be a bipartisan starting point and we are making that offer to both caucuses. And I hope they'll take us up on it.

CROWLEY: So what you mean is you're saying we need more senators to come join this group? I'm not sure what you're saying.

DURBIN: Yes. Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying.

If we can have Democratic and Republican senators saying don't quit, don't stop, we need to continue this effort, I think that's the kind of push that can bring us together in a bipartisan basis.

Sure, we're going to have a debate on the floor but let's have a good starting point.

CROWLEY: And do you believe that the Senate Democrats, or Democrats at all, will come up with a budget plan? I mean the Republicans do have one out there, Ryan's plan. But the Senate Democrats don't have one. Will you ever?

DURBIN: Well, I can tell you that Senator Kent Conrad has his -- Democrats on the Budget Committee together in principle, but he will say, and I want to say, that's not enough. In terms of passing a budget on the floor of the Senate, meeting with the House and working it out, we need to have bipartisanship. We need some Republican buy- in in this. We need to both sit down, both parties sit down and find some accommodation. That's what four months of negotiated has been all about in the Gang of Six.

CROWLEY: There is also the vice president's group out there looking for some way, although in much fewer dollars saved as far as we can tell looking from the outside in. Which of these three things is most likely to happen, senator? The Biden group comes to some agreement, the Gang of Five or Six comes to some agreement, or the U.S. defaults on its debt?

DURBIN: Well listen, the last option is totally unacceptable. A default on the American debt can plunge us into another recession with even more jobs lost and businesses failing. Those few -- and I think totally irresponsible members of congress who say, it really doesn't make any difference if we default, are being irresponsible with one of the most significant economic issues we're going to face.

What we need to acknowledge that no single group, Gang of Five or Six, Joe Biden, can come to this conclusion. But maybe, just maybe, bringing together the best ideas of all of them we're going to find a solution to this problem.

CROWLEY: So you don't see the Biden group coming up with anything, or even the Gang of Five or Six, or if you get more people, the gang of 12 or whatever, you think it is going to be some conglomeration of those two things that pops up on the floor?

DURBIN: I want to say this at the outset Vice President Biden has already had some positive reaction from both political parties to his early negotiation. He could lead to us a successful conclusion here, but I think he's likely to take into account a lot of other arguments being made.

I really believe the Bowles-Simpson deficit commission, which I voted for is a great starting point because it put everything on the table and it was bipartisan and it was real. At the end of the day there were real dramatic cuts in our deficit which everyone wants to see.

So let him use that framework, let him be the spokesperson, the mediator. And I think with his leadership we can come to a positive conclusion.

CROWLEY: So why not take that deficit commission report, Bowles- Simpson, write it up into legislation, put it on the floor and do what Senator Coburn suggests, add, subtract, do whatever the senate's will is? I think people don't understand why you've got to have these little groups.

So that's what you want to have happen?

DURBIN: I'm with you completely. I'm with you completely. Even as we negotiated in this gang of six, we understood that whatever we put on the floor is open to amendment. There will be other ideas, some good, some bad, some controversial and some politically difficult. But we have to walk through the process. Rand Paul is not wrong. This is ultimately going to be a debate on the floor of some of the most important economic issues of our time.

And incidentally, that's why we were elected.

CROWLEY: Well, good -- yeah, and time's a wasting, Senator, as you snow. I mean, whatever Timothy Geithner is doing at Treasury department, he says he can mix things up enough to keep us from defaulting even though we're already through the debt ceiling, until August. But you only have until then.

And I guess some of the commentary also this week has been that there's not a lot of pressure out there about this debt ceiling issue. And what I wanted to ask you first is when you were out and about talking to your constituents, do they say to you, hey, I want you to vote to raise the debt ceiling? Is it a big issue out there?

DURBIN: Almost no one. Almost no one brings it up. You really have to be deep into the policy issues that are involved here.

But I'll tell you, everyone talks about creating jobs and getting this economy moving again. Whether or not we're dealing with the foreclosures in the Chicagoland area, businesses struggling to hire more people, people understand this economy is fragile and I know -- and I hope your listeners and viewers know, that if we default on our debt as several irresponsible congressmen have already called for, we are virtually going to find ourselves in a position where we jeopardize this economy.

CROWLEY: For which there is some bipartisan consensus at least because that's what others are saying on the Republican side as well.

Well, good luck to you, senator. Another week coming up of business, we hope. Thanks so much, Senator Dick Durbin from Illinois. We appreciate it.

DURBIN: Thanks, Candy.

CROWLEY: Up next, how can President Obama get the Mideast peace process back on track. We'll ask the top two members of the House Intelligence Committee.

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