Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committee - The 9/11 Commission and Recommendations for the Future of Federal Law Enforcement and Border Security

Federal News Service

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE SUBJECT: THE 9/11 COMMISSION AND RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE FUTURE OF FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AND BORDER SECURITY

CHAIRED BY: SENATOR ORRIN G. HATCH (R-UT)

WITNESSES PANEL I:

LEE HAMILTON, VICE CHAIR, 9/11 COMMISSION;

SLADE GORTON, COMMISSIONER, 9/11 COMMISSION;

PANEL II: ASA HUTCHINSON, UNDER SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY; MAUREEN BAGINSKI, EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, INTELLIGENCE, FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

LOCATION: 226 DIRKSEN SENATE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

BODY:
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to the panel for being here. I have two questions as time permits. One has to do with continuity of government and the other has to do with border security. And I'd like to direct my first question to Congressman Hamilton and Senator Gorton.

It's been almost three years since Flight 93 was diverted and crashed in a place other than which it was originally intended to crash and that is possibly in the United States Capitol or at the White House, potentially decapitating the United States government. Since that time, a bipartisan commission and a joint venture of the Brookings Institution and the American Enterprise Institute have come up with some very good, in my opinion, recommendations for the Congress to undertake with regard to presidential transition and congressional continuity.

So far, we've had perhaps even less success than the government has had generally in improving our situation since 9/11 in this area. And I would ask perhaps, Congressman Hamilton, for you to first address that and then Senator Gordon. How urgent do you believe it is for Congress to deal with the matter of governmental continuity and where the alternative, if we don't do anything and there is a successful decapitation, debilitation of the Congress, the alternative is essentially martial law.

MR. HAMILTON: Senator, we did not address your specific proposal with regard to a constitutional amendment nor did we delve greatly into the question of continuity of government. We had a statutory mandate. We interpreted that mandate fairly carefully or strictly and we did not think that it was clear that we should get into the continuity of government question. We know it's a major concern here in the Congress as it should be. So we cannot speak, as a commission, with regard to your particular proposal.

We do think that you are putting your finger on a very, very important problem, however, and in the report we address the question of transition. We think that the country is most vulnerable or very vulnerably, perhaps I should say, during a period of transition of government. And we make some recommendations with respect to requiring a president-elect to submit nominees in the national security area and for the Senate to act, to accept or reject those nominations within the 30-day period because we are concerned about that transition period.

Now your proposal has a lot of similarities with that. It's broader than ours. You speak about all the Cabinet members as I recall in your proposal, not just the national security proposals. So we're very receptive to proposals on continuity of government but we did not endorse any particular approach to them. We do appreciate your initiative.

MR. GORTON: We were not able to determine with absolute certainty the target at which Flight 93 was aimed. But I think all of us believe that it was much more likely than not that it was the Capitol. The basis of your concern is well taken. As Lee has said, we deal with maybe the first cousin of your proposal in dealing with transition. We were particularly struck by the attack on the Cole, which took place in late October of the year 2000. Within a couple of weeks, there was a preliminary determination of responsibility, a final determination that literally took years. But in that transition time, neither administration felt certain enough or concerned enough to deal with it and it went entirely unanswered.

That was the reason, a major reason that we went into the transition to try to get national security officers into place as quickly as possible. You've taken a step beyond that and gone beyond anything we thought about in suggesting that the sitting president make the nominations for his successor. I think that's an absolutely intriguing idea as are your ideas with respect to the continuity of government. We just-you know, we look at our charge and we simply didn't get into it. But is it a vitally important issue and one that we think should be given serious consideration by the Congress? The answer to that is a total affirmative.

SEN. CORNYN: Thank you for your answers. And I understand it was not perhaps within the scope of your commission. But I do appreciate your responses. And I wish I could claim originality but there is a lot of very smart and very dedicated people who made some recommendations which I've tried to bring forward together with others in Congress to address those.

Secretary Hutchinson, I want to tell you what an outstanding job I think that you and the secretary have done in trying to address the border security concerns we have. But I can tell you, as you know, as we've discussed, as a Texan with a 1,200 mile border with Mexico and a southern border of Mexico leading down to Central America one of the most porous in the country, we still have a long way to go. And I know you recognize that. But I would like to ask you specifically about how do we conserve our resources, or I should say, direct our resources in a way that goes after those who would come across our borders with malicious intent. From those who want to come across our borders with benign perhaps even beneficial intentions.

And I speak specifically of what you think a temporary worker program, something to deal not necessarily with people who are just wanting to come but even people who are already here and working in our economy. The last estimate I heard is about six million in that workforce. Do you think a worker program immigration reform needs to be coupled with our efforts at border security?

MR. HUTCHINSON: Thank you, Senator Cornyn, and particularly for your leadership and push on a number of border security issues. In reference to the borders, first of all, I think it's important that we understand the difference between those that come into our country to harm us versus those that come in for-you know, intent to get a job, support a family.

The entry is still illegal. We have responsibility to enforce the law in all respects. But we still have to recognize a distinction there.

And secondly, as you indicated, you know, the pull, the magnet that brings in those that are coming in for job purposes or other purposes into this country really divert our resources, consume our resources as compared to focusing on those that are coming in to harm us. And so the temporary worker program enhances security, gives a legal path and it really mirrors what we did last week with two announcements which was to reward those that are seeking a legal means to come to this country and to deter and discourage those that are trying to come in illegally. And so I think the temporary worker program does that. It discourages illegal flow and thereby it enhances security.

MR. HAMILTON: Senator, may I just add. I know you didn't direct the question to us but it raises a point that is very important to the commission and that is the tie between border security and immigration. I think what we are trying to say in our report is that that's an enormously important tie. You cannot put those two things into separate boxes and deal with immigration and border security over here. We believe you've got to have a biometric entry-exit system that is comprehensive.

People come into this country all sorts of ways, not just across the border in Texas. They come there in great number. But many, many ways, they get into this country. And we've got to have a system that is comprehensive enough to deal with all of those people coming in. Almost all of them are coming in with very benign purposes. We want them to come in. But we have got to be able to sort them out. We think you've got to have-officials have to have access to files on the visitors and the immigrants that are coming into this country so that they can make a judgment and make it quickly as they often have to do.

And we think you have to have an exchange of information on these people with other countries because most of them come from other countries, I guess, by definition. Real-time verification of passports, we cannot do that today but we have to try to do it and work towards that. And we see, of course, a growing role for partnership with state and local officials because the federal government simply is not going to be able to do it all. And part of all of this is secure identification of U.S. citizens as well. So we see this as an enormously important part of the national security of the United States.

These people got into this country all sorts of ways and they cooperated with corrupt officials. They used fraud. They lied. They worked with human traffickers to get into the country. And we've got to be able to identify these people. We've got to get the information on it and once we get the information on it, we've got to put it into a center where it can be accessible to everybody. And beyond intelligence, you've got to be able to figure out somebody has to be in charge, to take charge of the case, to manage the case, which was not done in 9/11.

Nobody was in charge. Nobody managed it. When we learned about these fellows out in San Diego, we had bits and pieces of information about them. Nobody put it all together. George Tenet was asked by us, when he learned in August of 2000 about Moussaoui in Minneapolis, and we asked him what did he do about it? He said, "Well, I put some of my CIA people to work with the FBI." And we pushed him a little harder on it. And he said, "This was the FBI's case." Now I don't think his answer was wrong. But it just illustrates what happens. Prior to 9/11, nobody took charge of the case. Nobody managed the case.

And that's what we are trying to correct with our proposal on the National Counterterrorism Center. You've got to have somebody not only that collects the information. You've got to have somebody, once the information is collected, somebody has to manage it and say, I'm taking charge of this.