NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript

Interview

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MR. GREGORY: We are back, joined now by the freshman senator from Florida, Republican Marco Rubio.

Welcome to the program.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): Thanks for having me.

MR. GREGORY: Good to have you here. So much talk about the tea party, and the tea party's influence in Washington. You were known as a tea party senator and candidate, embraced by the tea party, but you have your independence from the tea party caucus. What has the tea party, or the tea party sentiment, what kind of impact has it had on the debates we're having in Washington?

SEN. RUBIO: Well, first let's remind ourselves what it was. It was everyday Americans who were tired of the direction of our country, often tired of both parties and the direction both parties had taken our country, and they wanted people to come up here and, and change that direction. And I think for the first time in quite a while you're seeing a debate in Washington about how much to cut. In the past, it was about how much to reduce the increases. Now there's a real debate about how much to cut. And I think that's an important influence and an important impact.

On the other hand, we need to remind ourselves that our problems are big, and they're moving very fast. They're moving faster than perhaps any problems our country's ever faced have moved. And I think the real risk is, are our problems moving faster than our solutions or our ability to solve them? And, and that's part of the, that's part of the issues that are overlying all these debates that we're having.

MR. GREGORY: You know, it's interesting. Do you, do you describe yourself as a tea party senator?

SEN. RUBIO: Well, I have--first of all, I don't ever run away from the folks who have supported me that are in the tea party movement.

MR. GREGORY: Right.

SEN. RUBIO: I've often--I never ascribed that to myself because I think that the tea party movement is a grassroots movement of everyday people that aren't necessarily Republicans; a lot of independents, some Democrats. And they don't really--they're not of Washington. They want to influence what happens in Washington. But ultimately the principles that I stand on, I think, are principles that people in the tea party identify with.

MR. GREGORY: But there's a purist streak to the tea party, right? Don't compromise. You've even said you don't consider people in Washington serious, I assume Republicans and Democrats, about really taking on the toughest challenges we face. As you think about yourself, are you here to legislate> Are you here to compromise?

SEN. RUBIO: Well, we're here to make a difference in public policy. Now, here's the thing about compromise. Compromise is a dirty word, and it shouldn't be. But it's become one because in Washington compromise always seems to be a deal, and that's what it's meant to people over the last 20 years. A deal that people say is a solution but doesn't really solve anything. So I think if the compromise is between two folks that are both trying to accomplish the same goal, just have different ideas about how to do it, that's not a negative thing.

MR. GREGORY: Well, then you voted against the compromise on, on the budget deal in the, in the lame duck session. You apparently didn't think that was a good deal, that that was a fair compromise. Did the Republican leadership fail you?

SEN. RUBIO: Well, they--let me tell you this. First of all, I respect the work that Speaker Boehner put in it. He was in a tough spot. But let's remind ourselves of the last election cycle and what was it about. It was about the fact that we are dealing with major issues in our country, big issues that deserve big solutions. Now, if people like me who were elected in this wave of 2010 make a difference, if we don't stand up and say that, who is going to stand up and say that? If folks like me that were elected in 2010 don't come here and say, "These big issues, these big problems deserve big solutions," no one's going to say that.

MR. GREGORY: Right. But you still have to compromise. I mean, you say he was in a tough spot. He was in a tough spot because you either have the votes or you don't. So you send a statement or you actually compromise and get things done. Which is what Senator Rubio believes in?

SEN. RUBIO: Well, I--you want to have a compromise, the compromise better do something. My point is these problems have to be solved. To say we just compromised, be, "Oh, we compromised for the sake of a compromise," you know, that alone may get you some short-term lauds in the media, but in the long term it didn't accomplish anything. We have to have solutions.

MR. GREGORY: Well, you have this debate over there, raising the debt ceiling, right? The, the, the limit on America's credit card. And you've said, "No, I'm not going to vote to raise the debt ceiling unless we are serious about making specific cuts and reforms to entitlement spending." Now, the Treasury secretary has said that this would be a catastrophe, and he says it's irresponsible. This is what he said this week.

(Videotape, Tuesday)

SEC'Y TIMOTHY GEITHNER: The idea that the United States would take the risk, people start to believe we won't pay our bills, is a ridiculous proposition, irresponsible, a completely unacceptable basic risk for us to take.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY: Is it irresponsible for you to carry through to vote...

SEN. RUBIO: It's irresponsible to continue to borrow $1.6 trillion a year with no plan to end it anytime soon. Look, I marvel at how people in this town run around with their hair on fire because of the potential for a technical default because we don't raise the debt limit, but they don't seem that overly concerned about a real default where we're not paying our debt obligations because we don't have money. And my point is, we know that this is a problem. You look at any projection, it shows you that the debt crisis will come if we do nothing. Let's start dealing with it now. Let's use this debt limit debate as an opportunity to begin to put in place a plan and execute a plan that gains the confidence of the world.

MR. GREGORY: Well, that's right. But the Treasury secretary says that, "Let's talk about it. Let's work in parallel tracks." As you just said, the tea party's got everybody talking about government spending. But if you can't reach agreement on some of the things you've talked about--Social Security reform, Medicare reform, other specific cuts--do you then take that next step and say, "No, we're going, we're going..."

SEN. RUBIO: There has to be--no. First of all, there is no magic bullet.

MR. GREGORY: "...not allow the limit to go on."

SEN. RUBIO: In essence, you can't solve this debt problem that American faces with one solution. There's not a magic bullet to do that. It's a series of reforms that have to happen. What I'm saying, and what I think others are beginning to say, including many in the Democrat Party, is that now's--as part of this debt limit debate, let's not just talk about the debt limit, let's talk about how we're going to put this country on a fiscal path that is sustainable.

MR. GREGORY: All right, one of the ways to do that, as you well know, Chairman Paul Ryan of the Budget Committee has said we have to change Medicare as we know it. It's either premium support or a voucher system, but it's going to change, OK? Are you prepared to vote to support the Ryan plan?

SEN. RUBIO: Well, it would take three things. Number one is, Medicare as we know it goes bankrupt, so it can't not--you know, you can't sustain it the way it is. I mean, anytime--anywhere between five and the next 12 years, Medicare as we know it will go bankrupt. And all the people that are out there attacking the Ryan plan, my question is, "Where is your plan? Introduce your plan. Because if your plan is to keep Medicare the way it is, then your plan is bankruptcy, and that doesn't work for anybody."

Number two, as far as the Ryan plan is concerned, I will support any plan that saves Medicare, doesn't impact current seniors, and doesn't hurt economic growth. The Ryan plan does that.

MR. GREGORY: Right.

SEN. RUBIO: If people don't like the Ryan plan, including Democrats in the Senate, then introduce your own plan. Where is your plan?

MR. GREGORY: You'd vote on the Ryan plan. Because it's going to be up for a vote in the Senate, you're proposing.

SEN. RUBIO: I'll vote for any plan that saves the...

MR. GREGORY: Right.

SEN. RUBIO: ...that saves Medicare, doesn't hurt seniors, and doesn't hurt economic growth.

MR. GREGORY: Right. Well, but...

SEN. RUBIO: And if someone has a better idea on how to do that, they should propose that bill.

MR. GREGORY: Well, you can't assert that it saves Medicare when, when there's so much uncertainty about it. And it certainly dismantles the way that Medicare operates. And you have said recently you don't want to dismantle a program like Medicare or Social Security that your own mother relies upon.

SEN. RUBIO: That's right.

MR. GREGORY: And look at some of the reaction in terms of how people feel about cutting spending for Medicare. We'll put it on the screen. Cutting Medicare spending, 78 percent oppose. Medicaid spending, 69 percent oppose. You're not operating in a political vacuum here, you well know that. You are a senator from Florida with a lot of older voters. Are you prepared to stand up to them and say, "Sorry, folks, we've got to do this"?

SEN. RUBIO: You know...

MR. GREGORY: Because a lot of Republicans think this is, this is handing something to the Democrats that'll be potent against Republicans down the line.

SEN. RUBIO: Well, two things. The Ryan plan doesn't cut Medicare. Actually, it increases funding in it. And the only people in this town that have voted to cut Medicare are the people that supported Obamacare, that cut half a trillion dollars over the next 10 years out of Medicare and is using it to fund a healthcare experiment somewhere outside of Medicare. The only people in this town that have voted to cut Medicare spending are the people who voted in favor of Obamacare. That's a fact. And so the truth is the people...

MR. GREGORY: But you don't deny that, that if you introduce a voucher system into Medicare, that there's going to be a set amount of dollars that seniors have to go into the private marketplace. That is not Medicare as we now have it.

SEN. RUBIO: Well, Medicare as we now have it goes bankrupt. That's not a--Medicare as we now have it is not an option. Here's my challenge today. Anybody out there that thinks there's a better way to save Medicare should introduce a bill on Monday. Tomorrow when we get back to work here in Washington, run up to Capitol Hill and introduce your bill. Why hasn't the president proposed a Medicare plan? Why hasn't the congressional Democrats proposed a, a Medicare plan? Why haven't the leaders in the Senate that control the Senate, they haven't even proposed a budget, much, much less a Medicare plan. What is their plan to save a program that's going to go bankrupt in five to 12 years? Don't just criticize, propose. Otherwise, you're not serious, you're up here to play political games.

MR. GREGORY: You've been here for a matter of months in Washington, so you have something of a fresher perspective. What is your assessment of the president's leadership?

SEN. RUBIO: Well, I think, unfortunately, the president has failed to lead. And I, and I say this with sadness. Let me tell you something. I'm a Republican, and proud to be a Republican, but I love my country even more. I desperately want America, for the next 100 years, to be what it's been for the last, an exceptional country in multiple ways. Morally, socially, politically, economically, America has been unique and special. I want it to continue to be that way. It cannot continue to be that way unless the president leads. I want the president to lead. I want the president to lead. We can't solve this Medicare issue, we can't keep it from going bankrupt if the president doesn't lead. We, we can't put our country on a sustainable path of spending if the president doesn't lead. We can't play America's proper role in the world if the president doesn't lead. I want him to lead. Americans want him to lead. Ultimately, I'd rather him lead than, than just hope that my party succeeds. But he's not leading, and we're going to pay a tremendous price for that.

MR. GREGORY: Do you think he's beatable in 2012?

SEN. RUBIO: Well, I think he has to lead. If he doesn't lead, I think he should be replaced.

MR. GREGORY: But the question is, is he beatable in 2012?

SEN. RUBIO: Sure. Anyone's beatable in American politics. I learned that myself.

MR. GREGORY: All right. What about your political future? You said no run in 2012, you wouldn't be on a VP ticket, people of Florida are depending on you. If your party comes to you and says, "Look, you can focus on Florida, but in the fall of next year, we really need you on the ticket if we're going to carry Florida." Are you saying that there's no way you'll consider it or do it?

SEN. RUBIO: Yeah, I won't consider it. I don't want to be the vice president of the United States. I want to be a senator, and I want to be a senator from Florida. I think in the United States Senate I can have an impact on these major issues that we're facing. You know, I'm saddened that the--that Americans are so pessimistic about the future. They shouldn't be. There's nothing wrong with the American people. We are the same people that built here the greatest society in all of human history. We just need some government policies that allow the American people to once again do that.

MR. GREGORY: So under no circumstances would you serve on a ticket in 2012?

SEN. RUBIO: No, I'm not going to be on a ticket in 2012.

MR. GREGORY: Under no circumstances?

SEN. RUBIO: Under no circumstances.

MR. GREGORY: What about Donald Trump? Is he a serious Republican candidate?

SEN. RUBIO: You know, you guys give him a lot of attention, so, yeah, he is.

MR. GREGORY: Is he a conservative? Is he a true conservative?

SEN. RUBIO: You know, and he's a well-known--I don't know a lot about Donald Trump's politics. You know, I've been focused on the issues. You know, I knew you were going to ask that, I know you have to ask that, but I'm more concerned about the issues that are happening back here on planet Earth. And back here on this planet, the issues that we're facing are the issues that our country owes $15 trillion. Our debt is larger than, than, than our economy almost, about to be larger than our entire economy, with no plan in sight to reverse course on that. Around the world it's the most dangerous as it's ever been in a long time. There are people, as we speak, sitting in a cave somewhere planning to attack American interests at home and abroad. These issues have to be dealt with. If we deal with them, the next century can be an American century as well. But we have to deal with them and the president has to lead.

MR. GREGORY: Two quick ones on foreign policy where I know you've thought a lot about U.S. policy. There are reports that Gadhafi's son and grandchildren were killed by a NATO attack. Is this what will push him from power in your view?

SEN. RUBIO: Well, I hope the Libyan people will push him from power. I think the United States and NATO and the international community have a role to play in that. And he must be removed from power. For Saddam Hussein--I'm sorry--for Moammar Gadhafi to hold on to power in Libya would be the worst possible scenario I can imagine. He would be emboldened to act against our interests. He would create a blueprint for others in the region to act just like Gadhafi has.

MR. GREGORY: Should the U.S. target him specifically?

SEN. RUBIO: Well, he hides behind civilians. Yeah, he hides in areas and he tries to shield himself. I think if he's involved, unfortunately, if he's involved in military operations in military installations and command centers, you know, he's going to find himself in the line of fire. I think the best thing that Gadhafi can do is leave Libya.

MR. GREGORY: All right. We'll leave it there. Senator Marco Rubio, thank you very much for your time this morning.

SEN. RUBIO: Thank you.

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