FOX News "FOX News Sunday with Chris Wallace" - Transcript

Interview

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WALLACE: Ever since he was elected to the Senate in November, Marco Rubio has been talked about as one of the new shining lights of the GOP. A Tea Party favorite, people are already asking whether he might run for president or vice president next year.

Joining us now from his home state of Florida is Senator Rubio for his first Sunday show interview since the election. And, Senator, welcome back to "Fox News Sunday."

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R-FLA.: Thank you for having me back.

WALLACE: Senator, you made some news this week in an article in the "Wall Street Journal" in which you said that -- flatly that you wouldn't vote to raise the debt limit unless the following conditions are met -- fundamental tax reform; an overhaul of our regulatory structure; a cut to discretionary spending; a balanced budget amendment; and entitlement reform.

Question, are you saying that Congress has to pass all of that in less than the next two months or you're going to let the country go into the default?

RUBIO: Well, first of all, the people who are against my position on this argue that if we do not extend the debt limit that it will lead to a catastrophic default and my answer to that is if all we do is extend the debt limit, it will be even worse. And so, what I have said is that the only way that I will vote on this debt limit thing is if it's the last time we do it, plus a series of meaningful reforms that put us on a path towards fiscal sanity.

You just had Paul Ryan on a moment ago. He outlined a lot of those things that I just spoke about in my op-ed earlier in the week are going to be part of his budget. Now, we haven't seen the details yet, but those -- that's the kind of leadership we're looking for.

If all we do is go in there in three, four weeks or in a couple of months and extend the debt limit again and do nothing else, the world's going to look at us and say America and its political leadership is not serious about dealing with this incredible issue and the fact that their government continues to spend money it doesn't have.

WALLACE: But, Senator, aren't you pulling the same stunt, if you will, that Barack Obama did when he was a senator in 2006, when he voted against increasing the debt limit, but he knew a lot of other senators would do the right thing so he could make his political gesture, but they would keep the country out of default?

RUBIO: Well, first of all, I want to thank you for reminding the viewers that Barack Obama, when he was a senator, voted against extending the debt limit because back then, he called it leadership failure. Now, apparently, he thinks it's the mature thing to do.

But I would go on and say that the difference between that vote and what he did and what I'm doing is I'm saying here's what we should do instead. I'm offering a clear alternative.

Now, if someone has a better idea about how we can make and send a more positive message to the world that America is serious about dealing with its debt issue, then let's hear the idea.

But the fact is that as I sit here with you today, my colleagues on the Democratic side of the aisle in the Senate haven't proposed a budget for last year, much less one for this year or plan to deal with the things. Instead, they're sitting back and waiting to see how they can use this issue to win elections.

WALLACE: But, Senator, I guess the question I'm asking is it's easy to say "I'm going to vote against increasing the debt limit" when you know that a majority of the other senators are going to do it. If you were the deciding vote, would you still vote to put the country in default if you don't get all of your conditions met?

RUBIO: I don't want everyone to vote to put this country in default, and it's exactly what we're doing. If we all we do is extend the debt limit and do not start dealing with the fundamental fact that the American government spends money it doesn't have, that it borrows $4 billion a day, that almost 41 cents out of every dollar it expends is money we are borrowing, half of it from overseas and most of that from China -- anyone who votes to continue to do that is voting for default eventually, sooner rather than later, quite frankly.

WALLACE: One last question in this regard. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke has talked about the possibility of the country going into default and says this: "Failure to pay interest on the debt would create an enormous crisis in the financial markets."

Experts say it would make it more expensive for the U.S. to borrow. It would raise interest rates for home mortgages and consumer loans.

House Speaker John Boehner says it would "send our economy in a tail spin."

So, let me ask my question again. If you were the deciding vote, if you were the 51st vote, are you saying that if your conditions aren't met, you would vote to put the country into default? RUBIO: I would never want to see our country in default, but that's exactly where the guys are taking us because they refuse to make reform.

WALLACE: That -- yes or no, sir?

RUBIO: If you simply extend the debt limit -- well, I'm not voting for simply raising the debt limit, unless -- as I outlined in my op-ed -- it's the last time we do it and it's coupled with meaningful reforms that put us on a path toward fiscal sanity. Otherwise, all you are doing is guaranteeing default.

So, these guys that are going around saying let's just simply raise the debt limit, we'll deal with these issues later -- these issues have to be dealt with now. Every year that goes by, it becomes harder and harder to deal with these issues. And, quite frankly, we get closer to the day when those horrible things that Bernanke is talking about are going to happen.

WALLACE: OK. Before the debt limit, you got another issue that you got to deal with this week and that is about funding the government before the deadline runs out on Friday at midnight. And there's growing support -- and we talked about this just with Paul Ryan -- within the GOP, since you're talking only about a couple of billion dollars here for -- only in Washington incidentally would you say "a couple of -- only a couple of billion dollars."

RUBIO: Right.

WALLACE: But there's growing support for the idea -- look, make a deal, declare a victory, you're talking about billions here, focus on the debt limit, focus on the Ryan budget, when you're talking about trillions of dollars.

RUBIO: Well, I would say three things. First, this is a good opportunity to remind ourselves of while we're still debating the 2011 budget a third of the way in 2011's calendar year. And that's because the Democrats, when they control the House, the Senate and White House, did not offer or pass a budget. In fact, our Senate Democrat colleagues still have not. They offered one short-term spending deal, and it got less votes than the House bill that passed originally, the so-called House resolution number one.

That being said, I would say that, clearly, it's important -- the one I want to vote for is the one the House has already passed. We've already voted for that, it actually got more votes than what the Democrats have proposed.

But, ultimately, how we spend money over the next six months is important. But how we spend money over the next 60 years is even more important. That is a fundamental debate and we've got to get to it.

But what we do on the rest of this year's budget will be a strong indicator of how willing and how serious we are about dealing with our debt problem. WALLACE: Senator, I want to turn to another subject. You have sent a letter to the Senate leadership this week in which you called for resolution that would specifically put Congress on record, authorizing the use of force in Libya, and also, explicitly, make it clear that the goal of the mission is regime change.

So, the question naturally flows: are you willing -- do you want to put the U.S. ground troops on the ground in Libya?

RUBIO: Well, first of all, let's talk about why Muammar Qaddafi must go because the other alternatives are simply unacceptable. The first alternative and the one that I fear perhaps we're headed for is a long stalemate, a civil war, that all that will do is create conditions in Libya that are -- that are conducive for Al Qaeda and other terror groups to come in and really take advantage of it.

The other is that Qaddafi actually defeats the rebels. And then you're talking about emboldened, an angry, destabilizing force in the region that will impact everything from oil prices to the U.S.'s interest in every other country in that area.

That being said, as far as tactics are concerned, I don't think you go to military engagement, announcing what you will not do. I think that the United States has plenty of capabilities, both covert and overt, to help along this process of getting rid of Muammar Qaddafi.

Look, the stated goal of this engagement is to protect civilians and prevent genocide. As long as Qaddafi is in power, you can't protect civilians or prevent genocide.

WALLACE: So, let me ask you some specific questions, and we're beginning to run out of time, so I'm going to ask for brief answers.

RUBIO: OK.

WALLACE: Should we send in U.S. ground troops?

RUBIO: Well, ultimately, listen, the people on the ground, for example, the Libyan rebels -- they don't want that. I don't think that's the ideal scenario. But I don't think you enter military engagement by making bold public announcements about what you will or won't do.

WALLACE: Question --

RUBIO: The fact of the matter is, that are -- the people working with us there don't want that.

WALLACE: Question, should we arm the Libyan rebels?

RUBIO: I think the president was right not to take that off the table. I think we need to learn more about who they are and how they're working. And when you talk about the Libyan rebels, well, that's a lot of different people. We need to learn about who they are and whether it would make a difference. But the president was right not to take that off the table.

WALLACE: Senator, you criticize President Obama for what you call phony multilateralism and say that the U.S. should lead. But does that mean we shouldn't share command and cost with NATO? Does that mean that we should spearhead a third U.S. war against Arab country or in an Arab country?

RUBIO: Well, first of all, Chris, we are NATO. With all due respect to the our French and British allies who are -- shown a lot of courage and bravery and foresight in this endeavor, without the United States, NATO doesn't function and can't work. Absolutely, we want to work alongside them and we're pleased that they've actually taken the position they've taken in this regard.

But ultimately, the United States has capabilities that France and Britain do not have; particularly, militarily. And without those capabilities engaged in this endeavor, it will be impossible to accomplish the goal of this mission, which is to prevent genocide and the massacre of civilians because as long as Qaddafi is in power, that's what we're facing.

WALLACE: But I guess the question I have is: in a sense, isn't it smart to try to fold in to NATO and to fold in to the French taking the lead? And for instance, we're going to pull out our combat aircraft this week. Isn't that a good thing, not a bad thing?

RUBIO: I think it's a good thing we have allies in this endeavor. We should always try to have allies in this endeavor. We have them in Afghanistan. We had them in Iraq. We certainly had them in the first Gulf War in the early '90s. That's always the ideal scenario.

But we have to recognize that we have unique capabilities, as Secretary Clinton and others have said, that our allies do not have. And so, American leadership is essential to missions like this being successful.

WALLACE: Finally, a little politics. What do you make of all this talk -- and there has been a lot -- about you possibly being on the national ticket, either for president or vice president? And let me ask you, frankly, do you think you're ready? Do you think that you know enough to be either the president or vice president of the United States?

RUBIO: Well, I would say two things. Number one, I'm not going to the president or vice president of the United States in 2012.

WALLACE: All right. But either way -- let me just say, people are already saying, well, not 2012, because you actually wouldn't get sworn in to 2013. So, let's talk about 2013.

RUBIO: Well, or 2013. OK? I'm not going to be the candidate for president or vice president.

As far as whether we're prepared, that's why we have elections in this country. I have a lot of confidence and faith in our republic. Our voters almost always get it right -- more often than not quite frankly. And through that election process is what we've come to learn whether someone is prepared and whether someone has to answer that question for themselves.

I do think the most important thing we need in leadership in our country, not just in the presidency but in the United States Senate, are people that have a clear vision of what the role of government should be in our lives and what the role of America should be in the world.

And in my mind, it's pretty straightforward. Government should allow people to go out and do the things Americans have always done, create jobs and prosperity. And America's role in the world -- the world is a safer and better place when America is the strongest country in the world.

WALLACE: Senator Rubio, we're going to have to leave it there. We want to thank you so much for coming in and joining us today. It's always a pleasure to talk with you, sir.

RUBIO: Pleasure. Thank you.

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