CNN News From CNN - Transcript

CNN

SHOW: NEWS FROM CNN 12:00

May 27, 2004 Thursday

HEADLINE: Delicate Art of Compromise Emerging in Iraq; Muslim Cleric Arrested in U.K.; Interview With Congressman Christopher Shays, Congressman Anthony Weiner

GUESTS: Hassan Fattah, Christopher Shays, Anthony Weiner

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK: Thank you.

REP. CHRISTOPHER SHAYS ®, CONNECTICUT: Thank you.

LIN: Congressman Shays, let me begin with you. If there is enough of a threat that the top law enforcement officials hold a news conference to warn America to be on the alert, why then doesn't homeland security raise the terror threat level it from its status of yellow right now?

SHAYS: I don't know. And that's a question I'll like answered when we get back to Washington next week. I can surmise that it's because they don't think the threat is enough to warrant going from high alert to elevated alert. Or, vice versa, elevated to high.

LIN: Right.

Congressman Weiner, then where does that leave the American public? I mean, how-what are we supposed to do ith this information or lack of information?

WEINER: Well, that's what a lot of families are asking as they pack up for the Memorial Day Weekend and they have gotten these urgent warnings but contradictory messages about what they should do. Listen, I think the Bush administration learned the wrong lesson from September 11th. It wasn't that everyone didn't have the information about terror alerts, it's that decisionmakers didn't have it.

If they really are serious about this, don't just put out press releases and have scary press conferences. Fund homeland security for cities like New York. Check all baggage at airports. Check more than one percent of cargo ships. That's what government should be doing, not scaring everyone when there's really not much that we as individuals can do.

LIN: Congressman Weiner, you raise a good point.

Congressman Shays, I'm wondering, from what you've learned working on the subcommittee, what...

SHAYS: Well, this is a big issue to me. And I also chair the National Security Subcommittee that's had hearings on this.

LIN: Right. And what I want to learn from you, though, and I want the public to know, is, since 9/11 what has improved and what still needs to be done? Where are we lacking this weekend?

SHAYS: Well, a lot of things have improved. I mean, we're much better prepared to deal with a terrorist attack. We do a much better job of screening luggage, not as much cargo as we need to. Our police are a lot more capable. We're a lot more aware, and every day we get better at it.

But, you now, Anthony is right. There are things we could do better.

My basic feeling is, tell the American people the truth, whatever it is, and let them judge. And even if we go to an orange alert, tell them why we went to an orange alert. We had specific targets that are out there that we have to protect.

LIN: And since we're not getting that information right now, Congressman Shays, I mean, John Kerry supporters came out yesterday-for example, the International Firefighters Association-and said, look, this is politically motivated. These announcements before a Memorial Day Weekend holiday is simply to distract from President Bush's problems overseas, the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, the problems of the transition-upcoming transition in Iraq. Would you agree with that?

SHAYS: No, I think that's an irresponsible thing to say. I mean, the bottom line is we do know that there is going to be a serious attempt to go after high-profile events. And as we go into this weekend, I think, obviously, there's a concern. But I think the concern needs to be expressed with more specific detail.

LIN: And what detail would you like to know that you don't know right now?

SHAYS: I'd like to know what kind of targets they think are under attack. For instance, during the Christmas season and the New Year's season, we knew that there was a potential for a dirty bomb, potentially in five different cities. One of them being New York. We knew that there was a potential for hijacking an airplane out of Europe. So we could focus.

LIN: So Congressman Weiner, why do you think then we're not getting those details from the Bush administration?

WEINER: Because I believe that there's, at least on some level, is this idea that the administration has it. If they talk about these things enough, it will be a substitute for actually doing something about them.

You know, Congressman Shays said that we should let the information out there. Well, Tom Ridge yesterday said on one of the morning news shows that the chatter is consistent with what we heard in the past. So what is it that's new?

The only thing I can think of that's new is that they have a budget that short changes first responders, they have a budget that short changes cities like New York, they have a budget that doesn't include enough funding to check ports that are possible entryways for terrorists. What this is a distraction from the real responsibility of government.

The Bush administration has let us down because they have simply not provided the resources. And having scary press conferences that lead kids to be worried that they can't play dodge ball outside at lunchtime is not the way to go about protecting the American citizens.

LIN: Congressman Weiner, you represent Queens. I mean, you represent a significant borough in New York City. How is it that you are not getting-or your district is not getting the funding it needs, New York of all places?

WEINER: Well, you have asked the $64,000 question I can only ask of my Republican colleagues in Congress, but, most importantly, the Bush administration. How it is that a city like New York, where the threats are not hypothetical, we've really been attacked, how it is that we're getting funds that are being shared with places like Wyoming and San Antonio.

It is a shortcoming of this administration's allocation of the resources. They know it. I wish my mayor here in New York would stand up for a us a little bit more against his Republican colleagues when they do these things.

But you're exactly right. But what's more important is that our own New York City police department, the finest in the world, has said, well, we don't have any specific information about threats coming down the pipe. So if that's the case, if there is a specific threat somewhere else, tell those law enforcement officials. But I don't believe that citizens have to be on edge every two weeks because another threat comes across the transom.

LIN: And Congressman Shays, I don't want to get into a whole debate about New York City specifically, and its funding or lack of funding, but you wanted to jump in there. So please do.

SHAYS: New York should get more. And one of the things we haven't done as a Congress or in the administration is set up standards to know where money should go and how to evaluate it. But I think Anthony is being a little too partisan in this dialogue. I mean-and I take strong exception to a lot of his comments.

LIN: For example?

SHAYS: Well, for example, just this blanket criticism. He knows that we have gotten lots more money out to the communities. He knows that the first effort was to deal with communication for a lot of our police and fire, which we've done. He knows that, and I think we-it's not going to happen all in one day. It's going to take time.

LIN: All right. Let's leave it at that on that specific debate. But let me ask you this. When it does come to money, I mean, a lot of local law enforcement has been critical in the past when the federal government has raised the terror threat level because it requires those local governments to cough up the money and the man power to establish security at various specific sites, 24/7. Is this a money decision to warn the American public, be on the lookout, but not technically raise the terror threat level to burden these communities?

WEINER: Well, I'll tell you what it is. It is a substitute for a money decision.

When local law enforcement has to respond to these threats, they rely on the federal government to help out. We have a Department of Homeland Security that has shortchanged local responders in Connecticut, in New York, and all around the country. We have been fighting this fight ever since September 11th, and apparently to no avail.

Part of the problem is that I fear these terror warning press conferences are turning out to be a substitute for real legitimate action, much of the actions that Chris Shays himself has proposed in Congress. I think we have to realize that cities like New York and, frankly, first responders everywhere, are being underfunded by Washington. And having these terror alerts doesn't do a thing to make us safer if it's not followed with real resources to fight the terrorists.

SHAYS: My only problem is saying first responders everywhere. We don't need money everywhere. We need it in places like New York and others that we think are prime targets.

LIN: But how do you distinguish between an Oklahoma City, for example, and a New York City or a Washington?

SHAYS: Well, let me take a stab at that, if I could. One of the ways to do is to weigh actual threat, not infrastructure, not geography, not population. Actual threat.

LIN: Well, what do you mean weighing actual threat?

SHAYS: They have a formula at the Department of Homeland Security for how they allocate the funds. They give a factor of three for infrastructure, a factor of six for population, and only a factor of two for threats that they perceive.

LIN: Over likely targets.

SHAYS: For example, New York City, like who's a likely target?

WEINER: Here in New York City, we don't have to think about hypotheticals. We know that every day we've been targeted at least four times.

LIN: All right. I want to get Congressman Shays into this conversation.

Go ahead, Congressman.

SHAYS: Well, the bottom line is Anthony is right about it. New York is a prime target, Boston is a prime target, D.C. is a prime target. And we clearly need to make sure those communities have everything they need.

LIN: All right. But Congressman Shays, answer the question, please. Is it-do you think it was a money decision to not raise the terror threat level but to also warn the public to be on the lookout this weekend?

SHAYS: The honest answer is I honestly don't know. I don't know because I haven't had the briefing, nor has Anthony had it. And depending on what briefing I get next week, I'll tell you.

But that was the concern I had last year when we had people going into places like New York when we knew they were threats and didn't tell people the truth. Then let them decide what they want to do.

LIN: All right. One practical piece of information we do have is this FBI flyer with these seven wanted suspects. Congressman Shays, what are you going to do with that flyer?

SHAYS: Well, I think that flyer is important. Get it out everywhere. Let everybody know about it. And I think the police will have it and so will everyone else. Now, I haven't looked at the pictures yet, but I intend to.

LIN: There they are on the screen. OK.

SHAYS: But the bottom line is, the more the pictures are out, the more they're at risk.

LIN: But they don't even know. I mean, the FBI can't even say whether these people are even in the United States. They don't know where these people are.

SHAYS: Well, you know what? They think they may be here. And that's the point.

LIN: All right.

WEINER: Well, here's my practical piece of advice, is that people this weekend shouldn't be organizing posses looking for these people in this wanted poster.

SHAYS: But nobody is suggesting that, Anthony.

WEINER: They should enjoy their lives, they should go to the beach, they should relax. And let's hope that law enforcement has the resources to go out and catch them. But it is not our job as citizens.

We should be on the lookout all the time. But I have to tell you something, we should not be on edge. We should go about our business. And come visit New York City. We need the business.

LIN: And go to Queens.

SHAYS: And I don't think people are trying to put people on edge. They're just trying to let them know the reality. This is a tougher world and we better be prepared.

LIN: Right. All right. Thank you very much, Congressman Christopher Shays, Congressman Weiner. I enjoyed talking with both of you. And good advice for the coming weeks and months.

Stay with CNN throughout the day. And be sure to join us at 5:00 p.m. Eastern for "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Miles O'Brien is filling in for Wolf today. He'll have more on the latest terrorism alert, and he'll examine how al Qaeda may be trying to influence American presidential politics.

I'm Carol Lin at the CNN Center in Atlanta. "LIVE FROM" with Kyra Philips and Miles O'Brien up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Terror indictment. Authorities say this Muslim cleric was trying to set up a jihad training camp in the U.S.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Troublemaker turned deal maker? A renegade Iraqi cleric says he will end a deadly standoff with conditions.

O'BRIEN: Is America any safer from terrorists since 9/11? We're in depth this hour.

PHILLIPS: Easing the pain at the pump. A car designed to get more than 2,000 miles to the gallon. Will you be able to drive it home?

O'BRIEN: That's a long way from my pickup truck.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien.

PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Philips. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

And we begin this hour with a tale of two clerics. In London, a one-eyed radical whom the U.S. accuses of trying to set up a terror camp in Oregon is in custody pending probable extradition. But the Shiite cleric whose personal army has been waging war with U.S. forces in Iraq has apparently agreed to back off. And so have U.S. forces.

CNN's Jane Arraf tells us all about that from the holy city of Najaf.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Military officials say that they're cautiously optimistic that an agreement will take hold to dissolve the Mehdi Army here in Najaf. They say that they haven't had an attack on this base in almost two days. And it's so unusual, they're taking it as possible evidence that Muqtada al-Sadr, the radical Shia leader, is serious about making peace with other religious leaders and with the coalition.

Under a proposed agreement, Sadr would allow Iraqi police to come in and maintain security in Najaf, followed by other forces. And, essentially, civil defense and Iraqi police forces. As for the U.S.- led coalition, and specifically the U.S. military, they could eventually withdraw from bases around Najaf, withdrawing from this base in the middle of the city that they're in now. Officials say that they would expect to see weapons then be turned into Iraqi police stations at the key time (ph) that this is, indeed, a serious development in the ongoing search to end fighting in Najaf.

Jane Arraf, CNN, reporting from Najaf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Other news in and about Iraq to tell you about.

LOAD-DATE: May 28, 2004