CNN Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer - Transcript

CNN

SHOW: CNN LATE EDITION WITH WOLF BLITZER 12:00

HEADLINE: Interview With Condoleezza Rice; Interview With Rudy Giuliani

GUESTS: Condoleezza Rice, Rudy Giuliani, George Allen, Charles Schumer, Dennis Ross, Wesley Clark, Charles Ramsey, Ray Kelly, James McGreevey

BYLINE: Wolf Blitzer, Christiane Amanpour, Michael Holmes

HIGHLIGHT:
Interviews with Condoleezza Rice, Rudy Giuliani.

BODY:
BLITZER: President Bush commenting on where the war on terror stands right now. Welcome back to "Late Edition."

Joining us now, two U.S. senators who represent areas where the terror threat level has been raised: Democratic Senator Charles Schumer of New York and Republican Senator George Allen of Virginia. Northern Virginia, of course, is the home of the Pentagon, a key part of the Washington, D.C., metropolitan area.

Senators, thanks very much for joining us.

Senator Schumer, I'll begin with you. Howard Dean, a week ago on this program, thought there was politics involved in raising the threat level. You've been briefed on all of the information, the intelligence. Is politics playing any role in this decision?

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: I don't believe so, Wolf. The bottom line is that it is a difficult choice here. They did get new information that tied all of these strands together, truck bombs, financial centers around election time, within the last week.

When you get that new information, you have no choice but to let local law enforcement know. You can't just let the New York City police department and the Washington, D.C., police department know. It would be irresponsible not to tell Chicago and Los Angeles and other places, as well.

Once you tell a whole lot of law enforcement agency, it's going to leak out anyway. So I've always believed-and I've communicated this to Tom Ridge and others-that giving as much information as you can without compromising security makes sense.

I do not believe it was political. My problems are sometimes when the administration isn't open enough, not when they're too open.

BLITZER: Well, in this particular case, Senator Schumer, there's been some suggestion that the administration was too open in releasing the name of one of the arrested al Qaeda suspects, Muhammad Naeem Noor Khan (ph), because supposedly he was cooperating with the Pakistani government and, by releasing his name, that ended that sting operation...

SCHUMER: Yes.

BLITZER: ... if that was, in fact, what was going on.

SCHUMER: I am troubled by that. Obviously you want openness about danger, but not anything that would jeopardize security.

And the Pakistani interior minister, Faisal Hayat, as well as the British home secretary, David Blunkett, have expressed displeasure in fairly severe terms that Khan's name was released, because they were trying to track down other contacts of his.

And I've actually sent a letter today to Frances Townsend, the president's national security advisor, asking for an explanation here.

You read so much in the newspaper that seems to be contemporaneous with what's happening, and sometimes you scratch your head and wonder, are we giving away information that might compromise our ability to get the terrorists?

Hayat, the Pakistani interior minister, actually said maybe if Khan's name hadn't been released it might have resulted in getting bin Laden himself.

BLITZER: I did speak earlier with Dr. Condolleeza Rice, Senator Allen. She confirmed that on background, not publicly, but off the record, without mentioning any names, they did release the name of this Muhammad Naeem Noor Khan, but she didn't know if, in fact, the Pakistanis had been using him as some sort of sting operation.

Are you as concerned as Senator Schumer is that the release of his name potentially could have compromised an ongoing effort to round up additional al Qaeda operatives?

SEN. GEORGE ALLEN ®, VIRGINIA: Well, from what I can glean from all of this, they actually were able to get a lot of information to get the different addresses, the methods by which they were communicating over the Internet, and undoubtedly was a very productive and useful sting operation. It was positive, it was good. You're glad to hear we're infiltrating in that regard...

BLITZER: But if the information comes out too quickly, it could up-end a bigger potential round-up of suspects?

ALLEN: They get into a bind. And Senator Schumer's remarks were right. People-I always like to know. People want to know, all right, what's the information? Why are we shutting down this road, or why is there concerns? You always want to know the evidence.

In this situation, in my view, they should have kept their mouth shut and just said, "We have information, trust us," and I think that would have been good enough for me and, I would hope, for also others who say, gosh, we want to get more openness.

BLITZER: But you know, Senator Schumer, in this political climate right now the words, "trust us," during a heavy political season like this is right now, probably are not going to do it for a lot of Americans who are skeptical of this administration.

SCHUMER: And they could've said just what they said to us, to George and I, even in the intelligence briefings, which is what I've mentioned before. I mean, it's public now, so there's no worry, and they did say it, which is, "We have new information that ties strands together."

I mean, there was a day where there was a little bit of-a little (UNINTELLIGIBLE) because they said, "Well, the information about the buildings was old." Well, the information about the buildings was old, but the information about going after financial centers with truck bombs, with people infiltrating across the borders, was new.

And I think most people-I mean, you know, Mr. Dean said something that it was political, but I haven't heard any incumbent Democratic officeholder say it was political. I certainly don't think so.

And by the way, on this release of Khan's name, I'm not saying it was done for political reasons or even for malicious reasons. But I think we ought to know why, because I agree with George, it's great that we got him, and we're making great strides in intelligence-although British and Pakistani intelligence seem to be doing a little better than us because they have more on-the-ground human intelligence-but we should maximize what we can get out of these things.

And it doesn't aid the public that much to know that it's this man, Khan. They have found a new guy, that it gives new information, I think the public would be satisfied with that. I agree with George. And they shouldn't have put this-it seems to me they shouldn't have put this name out.

Now, maybe there's a reason for it. And that's why I've asked National Security Advisor Townsend today for an explanation to us.

BLITZER: Now, Senator Allen, a lot of your constituents, those who live in northern Virginia, commute into the District of Columbia every day to go to work. That's where they work. They live in the suburban areas.

How worried should they be right now, in this period between now and November 2nd, the election, of coming into the nation's capital?

ALLEN: I think they ought to be comfortable coming into the nation's capital. You know, I saw your interview with Dr. Rice, talking about the conventions in Boston and New York City coming up at the end of this month. We can't let these terrorists stop our democracy or our operations of service to the people of this country.

Things have been done here in the District, looking at buildings that might be that might be more susceptible to different types of attacks. And precautionary measures have been taken. I think they are reasonable. Some of them may add to the traffic congestion within the District of Columbia. But to me, from everything I've seen, it makes a great deal of sense to be on the side of caution.

I think that most people who work for the federal government, whether they work at the CIA or the Pentagon or Fort Belvoir, northern Virginia or within the District itself, recognize this is a target area, just as people in New York realize in New York City is a target area. We go about our lives. We realize we're in the midst of a war on terrorism, but we ought not to be flinching.

And the efforts that are being made, I think, for people who are knowledgeable about it, really are helping us win this war on terrorism.

BLITZER: All right. We're going to pick up that thought with Senator Schumer. We're going to take a quick break though.

Lots more to talk about, including threats, threats being made potentially against members of the U.S. Congress.

We'll also check what's happening in the news right now. We'll continue our conversation on all these matters. That's coming up when "Late Edition" returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to "Late Edition." We're talking with two members of the United States Senate: Democrat Charles Schumer of New York, Republican George Allen of Virginia.

Senator Schumer, Frances Townsend, the president's homeland security director, was on CBS's "Face the Nation" just a little while ago. Bob Schieffer asked her, what about these reports that there have been threats not only to the U.S. Capitol but to members of Congress? And she says, in response, she said, "Yes, in the past, and as part of this continuing threat stream."

Have you been briefed? How worried are you about your personal security?

SCHUMER: Well, you know, when you're in this job, you get threats from time to time. I have, George has, others have. And you just have to go about your life.

I stood outside, Monday morning, outside the New York Stock Exchange and watched all the people, great New Yorkers, go in there. And they were plucky, and I think that's the attitude we all ought to have. We have to go about our lives. And once in a while, do you get a butterfly in your stomach here and there? Yes, but you just go forward.

And I will say this-and I say this to New Yorkers all the time-while we have to be as vigilant as we can against terrorism, and should, the danger of you being hurt, God forbid, when you drive your car 50 miles is greater than the danger of you being hurt from terrorism. And we're all driving.

We all just have to go forward in our lives. And I think, as elected officials, we should set the example, so I don't let it deter me at all.

BLITZER: But, Senator Schumer, have you been briefed about any specific new threats to members of Congress?

SCHUMER: Not since before the Democratic Convention. I haven't heard anything. I did read the report in the newspaper the other day, and I did check with the NYPD yesterday, the New York Police Department, whether they had heard anything, and they said no.

BLITZER: What about that from your perspective, Senator Allen?

ALLEN: From my perspective, we all know that the Capitol is one of the targeted areas, and also possibly Senate office buildings, House office buildings. Precautions have been taken. And so, to the extent any of us or our staffs or these interns who come in in the summer are in danger, we do worry about our staffs a great deal. As far as ourselves, you can't. You can't worry about-if a bullet is going to hit you, it's going to hit you. You just keep going forward with your mission and principles and advocacy.

BLITZER: But have Capitol Hill Police provided you with extra security?

ALLEN: No, no.

BLITZER: And neither you either, Senator Schumer?

SCHUMER: No. Not personally.

BLITZER: That's what I'm talking about, personally.

SCHUMER: Right. We live with these things, Wolf. Every one of us gets threats here and there. I get a few a year from one disgruntled type of person or another, and you just go forward with your lives. I've been an elected official for 30 years and, knock wood, everything has been fine so far.

BLITZER: All right. Let's take a caller from South Carolina.

South Carolina, go ahead with your question.

CALLER: Hi. Thank you very much. I was wondering if either of the gentlemen could answer the following question.

I'm wondering why the administration fought releasing the names of the Guantanamo prisoners for years but now they're releasing the name of this Pakistani. And it just seems logically inconsistent. And I'm wondering if either senator has been briefed or has an explanation for this.

BLITZER: All right. Senator Schumer, do you have an answer to that?

SCHUMER: Well, we don't know, for instance, that the administration released the name of the Pakistani, that it might have come out from some operative somewhere or other. So that's why I've asked for this explanation as to how the name got out and why and whether it was damaging and what should happen.

So I think it's a little soon to leap to that conclusion. As I mentioned earlier, except-and it is a huge exception-except when it compromises national security, I do believe in openness. And that would be the rule that I would have applied to Guantanamo.

BLITZER: Are you satisfied, Senator Allen, with the way the Senate is reacting to the recommendations by the 9/11 Commission, specifically the call for the new intelligence czar, if you want to call it that, and a new center for counterterrorism?

ALLEN: Well, Senator Collins, chairman of the Government Operations Committee, and Joe Lieberman, the ranking member, have had several hearings on it, and I think the Senate is acting responsibly. Senator McCain and the Commerce Committee will have a hearing on the aspects of dealing with transportation next week.

I think everyone is looking at it with due diligence. I think that in so far as the czar and a whole new Cabinet secretary, everyone is reading what the president has to say, giving our own analysis of it.

The Terrorist Threat Integration Center, by the way, is also in northern Virginia. I think...

BLITZER: As is the CIA.

ALLEN: As is the CIA. And that, to me, was the most important thing that was done of all. The Department of Homeland Security, all the boxes, the changes, all that was very important. But the most important was to get integration of all the different agencies, the sharing of information and the use of technology to analyze the volumes of that information. And that's what the Terrorist Threat Integration Center is.

The center on counterterrorism builds upon that, and I think that's a good idea.

BLITZER: We're almost out of time, Senator Schumer, but the Democratic presidential candidate, John Kerry, says he accepts all 41 recommendations of the 9/11 Commission. Are you prepared to go that far?

SCHUMER: Yes. The bottom line is, I'm a little worried here. I'm worried-I think the commission did a masterful job that was bipartisan, and the last thing we want is these recommendations to sort of sit on a shelf and gather dust.

I was troubled when the president called for a national intelligence chief who didn't have budgetary and hiring and firing authority.

George is right. To integrate all the intelligence agencies, and each one has their own turf, isn't (ph) very important. But if you just have someone up there who has no authority to force them to do it, it's not going to happen.

I would hope that we could implement every one of these recommendations before we leave Congress on October 1st. Because, mark my words, if we wait and say we'll do it next year, it's not going to happen.

And I just hope that the commission and the families, many of whom were from New York, who pushed for the commission, continue to push for Congress not to play games of turf and not to say, oh, each one of us has a better idea, but let's get this done. Our security is at stake here.

BLITZER: Senator Schumer, Senator Allen, thanks to both of you for joining us.

ALLEN: Thank you, Wolf.

SCHUMER: Thank you.