MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

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REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D), NEW YORK (via telephone): Yes, well, the U.S. has a lot of interests here. And, you know, we talk about instability in the Middle East, and Egypt being our biggest--one of our biggest allies along with Israel. But, of course, you know, young people will have their voice.

And when you look throughout history, you see young people who are the ones who become discontent with what status quo and freedoms are not there. And so, they go to the street. And I think that"s what you"re seeing there in President Mubarak. You know, and I know, we as a country, and I know a number of times that I visited him in Egypt or when he visited us here in the United States, I said there needed to be some change. And it gets to a point where it boils over and young people are the ones that make change happen.

They made it--you know, we celebrated Martin Luther King"s birthday here in the United States and my great colleague, John Lewis, who was in Washington. He was only 17 years old during that time. They made change. And the young people in Egypt are now saying they want change.

MATTHEWS: Do you feel like you know President Mubarak personally enough to know who he"s rooting for here? And I mean that seriously. Is he rooting for those young people in the streets, the lower middle class who have worked over there and not gotten a break? Or is he rooting for the old coalition the United States has between Israel and a compliant Egypt? Who"s he"s rooting for?

MEEKS: But you got to think that he is somewhat rooting for the old guard because that will keep him in power.

Now, he"s always said at the few times, and I don"t know that personally, I know him when he comes in, his concern has always been the Brotherhood. And anytime you"ve had that conversation, the Brotherhood always comes up. And he says, you ought to need to look into it and that will be the threat to the United States of America.

However, you know, we"ve got to deal delicately because we don"t hurt any Brotherhood (ph) segment, but we said that maybe we should be picking a candidate. That is something that we will talk about has to be done by those same young people and now, older people who are afraid to step up--

MATTHEWS: Right.

MEEKS: -- but now will step up because the young people have.

MATTHEWS: What about our president, President Obama? Do you think the president has a sympathy there for those nonviolent protestors? He seems to be supportive of democratic demonstrations as long as they"re not violent. He wants to see that government of Mubarak bow to those reasonable demands.

It seems to me that"s what he"s saying. Just listen to him say this:

don"t use violence by the military against those people with their legitimate demands.

Do you hear the same thing, Congressman?

MEEKS: I absolutely hear the same thing and I think the president is right on by doing that. As I said, I join the parallel, you know, a number of times I do, in our own history in talking about nonviolence. And nonviolence can make the change, lead those young people in the streets, ask them to be nonviolent and if the military and anyone else continues to be violent against them, that will be there for the whole world to see and all good people of goodwill will then stand up and support them.

MATTHEWS: That"s right.

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MEEKS: Be nonviolent, but be vocal.

MATTHEWS: That"s what I hear.

MEEKS: Absolutely right. I think--

MATTHEWS: I think we hear the president--I think the president is being very transparent. It"s an extraordinary situation, Robin Wright, having covered diplomacy over the years, to have the president of the United States hear the president of Egypt say something he didn"t really like because he thinks it"s the old argument, the old defensive arguments of not changing, getting on the phone to him, talking to him for half an hour apparently, perhaps pleading with him, perhaps warning him, and then going right on national television, worldwide television and saying what he just said to Mubarak.

This is extraordinarily transparent, isn"t it, Robin?

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