CNN "State of the Union with Candy Crowley" - Transcript

Interview

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CROWLEY: Joining me now from our New York bureau, Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer. Thank you for being here.

Obviously the story of the day and what's going on in Egypt. Let me get your take now on really what now seems to be the key question: can President Mubarak survive this long enough for there to be some sort of transition to something else?

SCHUMER: Well, that is -- the hope is that there will be a transition to something else. I agree with the thrust of Senator McCain which is quite the same as the thrust of the president.

The bottom line is this, there are some good signs here. It's not all terrible. The fact that the army is in control, the army is a respected institution in Egypt. The people like it. You can see even in the pictures the army and the protesters joining together to protect neighborhoods.

And thus far most, not all, but most of the protesters have been focused on economic and political freedoms. It is not an anti-U.S. message primarily nor is it a fundamentalist, radical Islamist message but a secular message. We want freedom. We want economic and political freedom. If the energy can be channeled constructively into free and open elections in September where there is some time for some secular opposition parties to germinate, that's probably the ideal outcome. It's hardly a certainty, but it's certainly a real possibility.

CROWLEY: Well, Senator, I -- I agree with you that, when we first started this earlier this week, it was very definitely an anti- Mubarak protest across the country. But we've been noticing in the past couple of days that we are seeing more signs directed at the U.S.

One of those, just recently, in the past hour or so, caught our attention and I wanted to show it to you, a young man holding up the sign that says, "USA, we hate your hypocrisy."

My larger question to that is, isn't there a real chance here that the U.S.'s strongest ally, next to Israel, of course, or after Israel, in that region is Egypt, and we may be about to lose that?

SCHUMER: Well, that's a real worry. And there are no really excellent solutions here. The best solution would be channeling legitimate protests and hurts of the people, both economic and democratic, into a democratic election.

And if that can happen, there's a chance, as Senator McCain said, for a decent outcome, maybe even a model for the rest of the Middle East.

There is some anti-Americanism in the protests, but by and large, they still are basically, you know, a college student -- a college graduate who hasn't been able to get a job for five years. That's what the people really want changed.

And we believe, as we always have, that democratic government is the way to go. And hopefully, it can be channeled in that direction with the Army, sort of, as a guiding hand.

CROWLEY: Last question on this, because I do want to turn you to some domestic questions. But this has the potential of rocking the peace process. And I wonder what you think the threat to Israel is now -- not -- I don't mean physical threat, but the threat to peace and stability in the region as a result of what's going on right now.

SCHUMER: Well, Egypt, by and large, has been a stabilizing force, obviously, recognizing Israel's right to exist. Even after the assassination of Sadat, that continued. And so it is a very stabilizing force.

My hope is that Egyptian politics, which has tended to be secular, certainly wanting more rights and deserving more rights, both economic and political, takes root in that country now. And maybe we're at the time where it can. You know, not every country can become a democracy at the snap of a finger, but Egypt might well be ready for it. And that would be the best outcome, as I say, of a lot of bad choices. Mubarak cannot continue in the long term with the oppressive regime he's had now. The demonstrators have shown that.

CROWLEY: Let me turn you to domestic policy because it is budget season. It is time to raise the debt ceiling. Otherwise the U.S. is going to lose its ability to pay its debts.

Where do you see this fight going now?

Because, basically, we have a very determined bunch of Republicans right now, particularly on the House side, saying, no way we're going to raise this debt ceiling until we start doing some cutting.

SCHUMER: Well, there's even a problem before the debt ceiling. On March 4th, the government funding resolution expires. And it seems that a lot of Republicans in the House want to risk a shutdown of the government if they don't absolutely get their way.

That was a mistake when Newt Gingrich tried it in 1995. It will be a bigger mistake now. It's really playing with fire because, if they were to shut down the government, not only would horrible things happen like an inability of people to get Social Security checks, you can't fund the military, but ultimately, it risks the credit markets.

They are getting wary because of the large debt we have, which we have to get down, but if they feel that people are willing to shut down the government, you could risk the credit markets really losing some confidence in the United States Treasury, and that could create a deeper recession than we had over the last several years -- God forbid, even a depression.

So I would urge my Republican colleagues, no matter how strongly they feel -- you know, we have three branches of government. We have a House. We have a Senate. We have a president. And all three of us are going to have to come together and give some, but it is playing with fire to risk the shutting down of the government, just as it is playing with fire to risk not paying the debt ceiling.

CROWLEY: So, Senator, just quickly in the minute we have left, where do you see this going?

Because it is not an unpopular position at this point for a politician to say, we're spending too much, and if you can't come to an agreement with the Democratic Senate or the Democratic White House, why would it be so unpopular to say, fine, you know, if you guys won't agree, let's just stop spending and see what happens?

SCHUMER: Well, let's say two things. First, certainly, we in the Senate and the president believes we have to rein in spending. The president called for a five-year freeze on spending. That's rather significant. It saves $400 billion. But you can't just demand your position, particularly the position has kept getting more and more and more over to the right. Originally, they wanted to go down to the 2008 levels, now down to the 2006 levels.

That would cause huge problems. Just one little example: 3,000 food inspectors would be fired, risking the health of our food; 4,000 FBI agents, risking both safety on the streets and antiterrorism.

So what government is all about is having strongly held views, but when not everyone agrees with you, coming to a reasonable position.

We can come to a reasonable agreement that curbs spending. We Democrats showed that when we supported the bipartisan session, McCaskill's proposal, in the last -- in the last budget.

But to just stay in your corner and say, "It's my way or I'm shutting down the government," that could lead to terrible, terrible problems. And I would plead with my new Republican colleagues in the House who seem to want to do this, that that is playing with fire. Please don't do it.

CROWLEY: Senator Chuck Schumer out of New York, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate it. Next...

SCHUMER: Thank you, Candy.

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