MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript
Interview
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SEN. CHRIS COONS (D), DELAWARE: Well, Chris, thanks for a chance to be on.
I think I share every American"s concern that, if we"re going to continue to stay in Afghanistan, it"s got to be worth the investment of lives, of money, of resources. And there"s got to be a strategy that allows us to see a path forward towards a stable, secure, independent Afghanistan.
MATTHEWS: Have we got one?
COONS: I was encouraged--I was encouraged by what I heard today about the progress in Southern Afghanistan and the partnership with Pakistan, but I am gravely concerned about whether there is a path forward for a counterinsurgency strategy that can really work or not.
MATTHEWS: You know, if you were in the--and let"s think politically. You"re sitting--these guys are as smart as we are. Sometimes, they"re cannier than we are on the other side. They may be evil, but they"re smart.
You"re in al Qaeda. You"re watching America. You"re reading the newspapers over here, watching CNN. You"re whatever. You"re keeping up with us. You know we"re talking withdrawal next July. You know that they"re allied with the Taliban, many elements of it. Why don"t they just keep things cool, wait for us to leave, and take over and have their base back?
I just never understood this, we can wait them out, when they live there. They will always wait us out. They"re from there. We"re from here.
COONS: Well, let"s be clear about something, Chris. I support the president"s commitment to continuing a very tough fight against al Qaeda, wherever they are. There are elements affiliated with al Qaeda that are in Yemen, that are in Somalia, that are in Pakistan, that are in Afghanistan.
MATTHEWS: I know. Germany.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: There are a lot of places.
COONS: You"re right. I don"t think we will ultimately be able to take our eye of the ball and stop a conflict with al Qaeda that may go on for many, many years.
The real question is, are we going to be able to stand up a successful Afghan security force? Are we going to be able to get a good and effective partner in the Karzai government? Are we going to be able to persuade Pakistan under President Zardari to work with us to close down those parts in the border regions that the Taliban and al Qaeda are using?
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: What"s your answer to that? You"re the senator. You think that the government, Zardari of Pakistan, has the stuff to go into those Northwest Territories, those unregulated areas, tribal areas, and really crush al Qaeda if bin Laden may be there? Why haven"t they done it in 10 years?
COONS: As you heard from Senator Reed, they just don"t see that it"s in their own interests to go aggressively after the Taliban and al Qaeda, particularly that are affiliated with Afghanistan.
MATTHEWS: Right.
COONS: But they have stepped up their attacks against the elements of the Taliban that are in Pakistan.
We have made some progress with them. I"m reserving judgment. As you mentioned at the outset, I have been a senator for just a month. I am looking forward very much to going to Afghanistan and making a visit on the ground.
MATTHEWS: OK.
COONS: I have friends and folks who I have known and served with in county government in Delaware who have done two and three tours in Afghanistan.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
COONS: And I"m gravely concerned about our making sure that we"re finding a path forward that works for America.
MATTHEWS: Let"s look at Secretary of Defense Gates and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton today responding to new polls that show dwindling public support for the Afghan war. Let"s listen.
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ROBERT GATES, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I would just say that it"s obviously the responsibility of leaders to pay attention to public opinion. But, at the end of the day, their responsibility is to look out for the public interest.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think it"s understandable. And I"m very respectful of the feelings of the American people.
But the question I would ask is, how do you feel about a continuing American commitment that is aimed at protecting you and your family now and into the future?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, here"s something I would like you to check out, Senator, with all respect. I got a sense we have no idea what"s going on over there. I think the ISA in Pakistan is in bed with the Taliban.
They like the Taliban because they"re on the same side against the Indians. They don"t like Karzai. There are so many strange alliances over there that we can"t even figure out, and yet we think we"re fighting a war. That"s my worry.
Your thoughts on that as a last question, the murkiness of it.
COONS: I think you"re right. It"s a very complicated strategic picture.
I think where Pakistan and its leadership really is, is one of the critical questions for us. And I think this war has become increasingly unpopular because the average American is convinced that it"s not winnable in the long term.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
COONS: I"m going to support the president"s efforts in the next few month, but at this moment, I"m looking forward to us making a tough strategic review and making responsible decisions by next summer.
MATTHEWS: Well, Congratulations, Senator Coons, and thank you for beating Christine O"Donnell. That was an important election, I think, for life on this planet.
Anyway, up next: Who"s the Republican congressman who says getting rid of don"t ask, don"t tell marks the end of America"s days as a great nation? Check out this guy"s commentary.
You"re watching HARDBALL, only on MSNBC.
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