MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript
Interview
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SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D), COLORADO: You know, I was home this weekend, Chris--by the way, thanks for having me back--and I was shopping with one of my little girls. And we went to Macy"s, And there was a Democratic senior who runs a Democratic club there who said, How are you going to vote? I said, I"m going to vote for it. And she grimaced a little, and I said, What"s wrong? She says, Well, I don"t like these tax breaks. And I said, yes, but if we don"t pass this, three weeks from now, two million Coloradans" taxes are going up, and we"re not going to have unemployment insurance.
So what put it together? I think that people went home and heard, you know, that people reacted to that and said, You know what? That doesn"t sound like a bad deal, which is what she said to me.
MATTHEWS: Well, that"s a good story because let"s look at this new number. I am actually amazed by this number. The new "Washington Post"/ABC poll finds that 69 percent, 7 of 10, Americans support the deal. Now, here"s the interesting synchronicity among the parties -- 68 percent of Democrats, basically the national average, 68 percent of independents, basically the national average, with a little premium of support from Republicans at 75 percent.
Now, Senator, everybody knows Republicans feel they got a little better in this deal because they were holding up everything to get it, but not that big a differential here.
BENNET: Obviously, I haven"t seen the crosstabs on the poll, but I"ll bet you there are two things animating that. One is people saying, It doesn"t make any sense to us in the short term to see taxes rise for everybody and--and we"re glad that there"s...
MATTHEWS: You mean go up. You mean go down.
BENNET: To go up--taxes--we don"t think it makes sense for taxes to go up for everybody. And also, I think people are happy to see that there"s an instant in time in this town when people are actually willing to work together, which is what I heard for 22 months on the campaign trail. Republican crowds and Democratic crowds and in between, they"re sick and tired of everybody screaming at each other and they"d just like to see something get done.
MATTHEWS: What do you make of the noise level, though? I mean, I hear it on my network. I hear it on this show with people I have to argue with. It does seem to me that the people at the points, at the poles, left and right, starting with the Tea Party--but then, of course, you have Senator Moynihan"s theory of the iron law of emulation, where the other side starts to imitate the other side.
BENNET: Right.
MATTHEWS: We know that happens. But it seems like the middle does get blanked out of the discussion.
BENNET: I think that"s true. And I think what has to happen is that we"ve got to elevate the policy discussion here. Look, this is one vote. It"s an important vote, but it"s one vote. What we really need to be doing is casting our eyes forward and saying, What are we going to do in the way of comprehensive tax reform? What are we going to do to create a compelling story for the American people and for our trading partners around the world that we"re going to dig ourselves out of this debt and this deficit?
And I think if we do that hard work, what we"re going to find is that the people that are polarizing on either side are going to have to come to grips with these stubborn facts that we"re going to have to deal with, and that"s what the people in my town halls told me over and over again they wanted us to do.
MATTHEWS: What do you make of this...
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: I"ve got to get to this last point. I"m sorry, Senator, this last point--it"s all over the news late tonight. It just broke that this federal judge down in Virginia, a district court judge--that"s the lowest federal bench--has decreed that the individual mandate, the requirement that everyone buy health insurance, is unconstitutional, according to him. What do you think this augurs for the bill that made Barack Obama famous?
BENNET: Well, obviously, I"ll have to read the opinion. We think it"s constitutional. Everything that my guys have looked at suggests that it is. And this basically turns on, you know, whether or not the federal government has within its power the ability to mandate people to buy private health insurance. And we"ll see as it gets litigated in the courts. I"m confident that at the end of the day, the courts are going to say it"s constitutional.
And to answer your question directly, I think what you"ll hear is people that are opponents of the bill use this as a further pretext for trying to repeal it. I don"t think that had any legs before this opinion was reached, I don"t think it"s got any legs now.
MATTHEWS: OK, Senator Michael Bennet--by the way, congratulations on your big victory this year. You were definitely going against the wind in this country. Congratulations.
BENNET: Well, I appreciate it.
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