MSNBC "Countdown with Keith Olbermann" - Transcript

Interview

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Great thanks for your time tonight, Senator.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Good to be with you, Keith.

OLBERMANN: So, it"s you and Jim DeMint against the world?

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: Well, hopefully we"re going to have a lot more progressive support than just Mr. DeMint.

OLBERMANN: How accurate do those "New York Times" numbers sound on the Senate whip count for this? Twelve Democrats firmly, 12. Is that roughly what you think?

SANDERS: I think you got a very fluid situation. I can tell you this, Keith--in the last two days, and I represent a small state, we have gotten 2,000 telephone calls to my offices in Vermont and here in Washington, 99 percent of the people opposing this agreement.

I think you"re seeing that all over the country. The issue here that people are outraged at is that a time when we have a huge national debt and the richest people in this country are becoming much richer, who thinks it made sense to grow the national debt, ask our kids to pay more in taxes, so that billionaires can have giant tax breaks? Very few people I know think that makes sense.

OLBERMANN: How do you respond to the White House today in essence both on the record and off blaming congressional Democrats and considering the idea of blaming congressional Democrats good politics?

SANDERS: I think that"s absurd. I think what we need to do right now is take the case to the American people. You know, this may sound very radical, but it"s not just the Tea Party that can do demonstrations. Not just right wing people that can call up United States senators.

What we need now is a massive grassroots effort all over this country to tell the United States senators how come you voted against a $250 check for disabled veterans and seniors were not getting a call? You can"t fund that, but you"re prepared to give millions of dollars in tax breaks to the richest people in the country? We can put these people on the defensive if we are mobilizing at the grassroots effort.

OLBERMANN: What happens if there is no deal on this before the recess? I mean, Mr. Schumer"s no comment would sort of suggest the end of the world must be near.

SANDERS: I don"t want to speculate because I don"t know. But this is what I do know--if we concede this issue, if the word gets out, well, the Democrats are very wobbly, the Republicans are intransigent--what do you think is going to happen the day after? They"re going to come back for more and more.

Mark my words. They"re going to come back and say, well, yes, it"s true, we drove up the national debt because we gave tax breaks to billionaires. You know what we have to do now? We have to cut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, that"s what we have to do, and we are intransigent. So, we expect you, Mr. President, to compromise with us and Democrats to compromise.

Our job now is to get them to compromise. I know that"s a radical idea. But that"s what we"ve got to do.

OLBERMANN: Debate on this could start as early as tomorrow, as you know. You mentioned filibuster before. Could you successfully filibuster this thing?

SANDERS: Well, we will do everything that we can, including a filibuster, to slow this thing down so that the American people can be mobilized to say that when the richest people are becoming richer, they do not need huge tax breaks.

OLBERMANN: What happened here, Senator? Do you have any idea why the president wound up taking this position and creating this kind of firestorm from both sides?

SANDERS: Keith, I honestly don"t. I mean, obviously the president"s heart tells him, and we will agree with him. We must extend unemployment for the 2 million workers who are about to lose their unemployment benefits. It goes without saying.

Second of all, of course, when the middle class is collapsing, it"s absolutely imperative that the middle class--the 98 percent of the Americans--continue to get their tax breaks. And the president wants that to happen. So do I. I think that we can do that without giving hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to the top 1 percent.

But in order to bring that about, the president needs to lead and all of us need to be active at the grassroots level. We need to call up our Republican senators. We need demonstrations. We need to put pressure on these people because the position that the Republicans have, driving up the debt to give tax breaks to billionaires is a position in my view that the vast majority of the American people reject.

OLBERMANN: Yes, it is a breaking point. It is the proverbial straw.

It"s all of the above.

Senator Bernie Sanders, the independent of Vermont--thank you for your forthrightness on this issue and good luck.

SANDERS: Thank you very much, Keith.

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