NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript

Interview

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MR. GREGORY: Joining me now exclusively, the top Republican in the Senate, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.

Welcome back to the program. Welcome to the studio. Good to have you here.

SEN. MITCH McCONNELL (R-KY): Good morning. Good morning.

MR. GREGORY: So where are we? Are you close to a deal with the president on taxes?

SEN. McCONNELL: Well, let's put it this way, we've had more conversations in the last two weeks than we've had in the last two years, and I think that's a good sign, a growing awareness that the power's going to be more symmetrical in the next Congress, and I'm optimistic we'll be able to come together.

MR. GREGORY: And so what are the contours of what the deal might look like?

SEN. McCONNELL: Well, I'm not going to negotiate it here on, on MEET THE PRESS this morning. But I think you're, you're familiar with all the issues that are exigent. The big, the big issue on the public mind, of course, is whether or not we're going to raise taxes on anybody in the middle of a recession. And it is almost laughable that we were in session yesterday. It reminded me of the old movie "Groundhog Day." We just kind of keep doing the same thing over and over and over again. The voting, once again, on the tax issue, it could have been dealt with at any point during the course of the year. Here we are at the end of the year. I think it's pretty clear now taxes are not going up on anybody in the middle of this recession. We're discussing how long we should maintain current tax rates. And there are other issues that many people feel are important to address on unemployment compensation.

MR. GREGORY: Well, let, let's break some of those down. How long of an extension would--could you agree to? Because there's a lot of talk of it being temporary, a year or two.

SEN. McCONNELL: Well, I, I don't want to frustrate you, but I'm not going to negotiate that here on the show this morning. You know, I...

MR. GREGORY: But the notion of a temporary extension is something that you could live with, whatever that exact figure is?

SEN. McCONNELL: I would prefer to do it permanently.

MR. GREGORY: Right.

SEN. McCONNELL: And you and I have discussed that on earlier shows. I think the current tax rate is appropriate for our country. It's been in place for, for 10 years. Obviously, the president won't sign a permanent extension of the current tax rate, so we're going to have some kind of extension. I'd like one as long as possible.

MR. GREGORY: But you're comfortable that rates are not going to go up on anyone in America?

SEN. McCONNELL: I'm very hopeful that, that rates are not going to go up. And what we saw yesterday in the Senate, every single Republican and five Democrats voted that we shouldn't be raising taxes on anybody. In other words, it's bipartisan opposition to raising taxes on anybody at this time.

MR. GREGORY: What about extending unemployment benefits? You have said in the past we're in the middle of a jobs crisis. That being the case, could you then agree to an extension of jobless benefits as part of any tax cut package?

SEN. McCONNELL: I, I think we will extend unemployment compensation. We've had some very vigorous debates not--in, in the Senate, not about whether to do it, but whether to pay for it as opposed to adding it to the deficit. All those discussions are still under way.

MR. GREGORY: Do you sense there is a mandate from the American people to keep tax rates where they are?

SEN. McCONNELL: I and my members feel that the American people feel strongly that taxes shouldn't go up. I know our colleagues on the other side don't see it that way. But, look, all of, all of Republicans in the Senate, and a significant number of Democrats, feel the same way. It isn't going to happen.

MR. GREGORY: What about the impact on jobs? Senator Reid, on the floor of the Senate this week, said it's, it's fantasy to believe somehow this is going to be helpful to the jobs situation. This is what he said.

(Videotape, Friday)

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV): They can pretend giving the rich tax breaks creates jobs even though we know from the past decade that it doesn't. If that were the case, Mr. President, the economy would be booming.

(End videotape)

SEN. McCONNELL: Let me, let me give you some figures that aren't fantasy. Over 700,000 small businesses pay taxes as individuals. They would be hit by raising the top rate above $250,000; 700,000 of our most productive and effective small businesses. That's 50 percent of small business income and 25 percent of the work force in the middle of a recession.

MR. GREGORY: Democrats do point out a lot of those people include some, some people who are doing quite well, whether they're law partners or other individual business owners who are not exactly, you know, the typical small, you know, business owner, mom and pop store.

SEN. McCONNELL: I understand that. But the question is, is it a good idea to raise taxes on 700,000 small businesses, affecting 50 percent of small business income, in the middle of a recession, when we know that small business is the biggest job generator in our country? I mean, I--you know, look...

MR. GREGORY: Well, but you've had these tax rates in place since 2001. What's been the impact on jobs?

SEN. McCONNELL: Imagine, imagine how much worse it would been if we'd had the, the higher tax rate. Look, this argument's over, David. You and I can continue to engage in it, but it's over. The Senate voted yesterday, and every Republican and five Democrats said we're not raising taxes on anybody in the middle of a recession.

MR. GREGORY: And bottom line on, on the extension of the tax rates, unemployment benefits being extended, you see a compromise here in short order.

SEN. McCONNELL: I, I think the American people expect us to work together to make sure their taxes don't go up, and we're working on that package. We've had, as I said, we've had more conversations in the last two weeks than in the last two years, and I think we're going to get there.

MR. GREGORY: And, and assuming that that's the case, would that also open the door then for debate and actual ratification of the START nuclear arms treaty with Russia?

SEN. McCONNELL: Look, I don't set the agenda in the Senate. What we have said--42 Republicans sent our friends on the other side of the aisle a letter earlier this week saying the two things we need to do first, decide what people's tax rates are going to be come January 1, and decide how we're going to fund the government for the next 10 months. We haven't done that either. Once you get those two things out of the way, what we do the balance of the session is up to the majority leader. He sets the schedule. He will have to decide whether or not to bring up the treaty.

MR. GREGORY: Do you see it being ratified in a lame-duck session?

SEN. McCONNELL: I have no idea what, what the outcome of that will be.

MR. GREGORY: Are you prepared to vote to ratify it?

SEN. McCONNELL: I haven't made a decision on how I'm going to vote on that yet.

MR. GREGORY: Let me talk about the debt. The deficit commission proposal came out this week, and here are just some of the highlights. And tough medicine here in terms of what they propose. Social Security: Raise the retirement age, cut future benefit increases. On taxes: Eliminate mortgage deduction, increase federal gas tax by 15 cents per gallon. Federal spending: Cap security, nonsecurity spending; freeze federal pay for three years; eliminate congressional earmarks. You said on the program back in August, if this was a credible proposal you'd be behind it. You had three senators who you appointed to this commission, all of whom voted for it.

SEN. McCONNELL: Mm-hmm.

MR. GREGORY: Are you now prepared to endorse this and be a catalyst to get some of these measures passed?

SEN. McCONNELL: First, let me say I was extremely proud of my appointments: Senator Coburn, Senator Crapo, Senator Gregg. They supported it not because they like every part of it, because they, because they thought that this comprehensive recommendation underscored how deep-seated this problem is. This is an enormous problem. I think the message to us is, let's see what we can do with the president. You cannot do entitlement reform--and for, for your viewers, entitlements mean long-term liabilities set by law. We don't even vote on them every year. Some--many of them very popular: Social Security, Medicare and the like. You cannot do entitlement reform with just one party. You can only do entitlement reform on a bipartisan basis. So I think the message to us coming out of this deficit reduction report ism it's time for the president of the United States, and people like John Boehner and myself and others, to sit down and talk about what we can do to make sure that we have the same kind of country for our children and our grandchildren that our parents left for us.

MR. GREGORY: But, but, Senator, people have been hearing this a long time, and politicians make these promises.

SEN. McCONNELL: Yeah.

MR. GREGORY: The president said there's got to be broad sacrifice.

SEN. McCONNELL: Yeah.

MR. GREGORY: Why can't you say whether you'll specifically endorse this plan, and what your, what you intend to do as a party, as the leader...

SEN. McCONNELL: Well, David...

MR. GREGORY: ...to, to, to make some painful choices?

SEN. McCONNELL: Well, it would be absolutely irresponsible to sit here on a Sunday talk show and blow the talks by starting to endorse and rule out things. What I'm saying is, this is the road map. We need to sit down with the president, see what we can do together, because the only way we will actually accomplish something--I want to actually accomplish something.

MR. GREGORY: But do you endorse these specific proposals?

SEN. McCONNELL: What I endorse is the, the effort to underscore the, the, the magnitude of the problem, and I'm prepared to sit down with the president and figure out what we can do on a bipartisan basis. That's what this report was about. Now it's time to do something.

MR. GREGORY: Let me ask you about this WikiLeaks controversy. How much damage has been done here? What's the real story here that you're focused on?

SEN. McCONNELL: I think the man is a high-tech terrorist. He's done an enormous...

MR. GREGORY: Assange.

SEN. McCONNELL: Yeah.

MR. GREGORY: Who runs...(unintelligible).

SEN. McCONNELL: He's done an enormous damage to our country, and I think he needs to be prosecuted to the, the fullest extent of the law; and if that becomes a problem, we need to change the law. I think it's done enormous damage to our country and, and to our relationships with our allies around the world.

MR. GREGORY: Is there a question of incompetence here in the Obama administration, in your mind, about how this happened?

SEN. McCONNELL: Well, I'm sure that they're, they're going to pursue the way it happened internally as well. I hear that they know who, who did it. That individual also should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And they need to be looking at how we can avoid this in the future.

MR. GREGORY: Well, that is the issue of information sharing, and Secretary of State Clinton has said, you know, part of the problem, after 9/11, more of an emphasis on information sharing. In fact, the Pentagon, she specifically said, has more access to a lot of these cables, and ultimately that's where Private Manning, who is accused of doing this, got that information. Is information sharing the problem? The ability to download information in the, in the government?

SEN. McCONNELL: I don't know, but we sure need to look at it thoroughly because this is a huge problem.

MR. GREGORY: I want to ask you, finally, about your measure of the, the president politically at this juncture. You had an opportunity to sit down with him. You said at the outset of this interview, it's more talking you've done with him face-to-face than you've done in a while, as you've met with other congressional leaders and the president on Tuesday. Here is where the president stands politically compared to Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton at a similar juncture after they faced a tough midterm race. And you look at his approval rating, he actually rates a bit higher, which is counter to the conventional wisdom, because he's taken quite a licking here. What's your assessment of his political strength as a, as a political adversary for you?

SEN. McCONNELL: Well, the political thing will play out over the next two years, but the thing we need to do now is to figure out how we can work together. The American people didn't send us here to do nothing for the next two years. In fact, we've had a regularly scheduled election every two years since 1788 in this country, and I think--what I hope will happen is the president will hear the message of the American people. I think they spoke rather loudly and rather clearly. One pundit described it as a restraining order against what we've been doing the last two years, this splurge of spending and debt and Washington takeovers. That needs to stop. And hopefully we can focus on things that we can agree on. For example, the president has apparently secured an agreement with, with Korea with regard to trade. That's something I'm very likely to support, can support.

MR. GREGORY: And do you consider that a big accomplishment by him? Because he was criticized roundly leaving South Korea without that free trade deal, and he got it. He waited for it and he got it.

SEN. McCONNELL: Well, regardless of how he left South Korea, if he now has an agreement, that's something we ought to go forward with. And by the way, we ought to do the Colombia agreement and the Panama agreement as well, which has been languishing for years.

MR. GREGORY: But, Senator, the question I ask here is about his political strength. You, you have said that your goal is to make him a one-term president.

SEN. McCONNELL: Well...

MR. GREGORY: That's what you told the National Journal.

SEN. McCONNELL: ...his goal is to be a two-term president.

MR. GREGORY: Right.

SEN. McCONNELL: I mean, so what's unusual about that?

MR. GREGORY: What makes you think he's vulnerable enough to be a one-term president that you could succeed?

SEN. McCONNELL: Look. I don't think that we ought to be talking about what's going to happen two years from now.

MR. GREGORY: But you did talk about it.

SEN. McCONNELL: He--well, but you know...

MR. GREGORY: You said you wanted him to be a one-term president, that that was your goal.

SEN. McCONNELL: He wants to be a two-term president, I want him to be a one-term president. The American people have put us both in charge for two more years, and we need to have a relationship with each other and see what we can do working together. I hope he pivots and starts helping us reduce spending, reduce debt, ratify trade deals. He, he's in favor of nuclear power, so are most of my members. There are things we can do together for the American people that would be very important in the next two years.

MR. GREGORY: You predicted he'd become a born-again moderate. Is that...

SEN. McCONNELL: I sure hope so.

MR. GREGORY: Is that--but is that playing out in this tax debate?

SEN. McCONNELL: Well, we'll find out. We'll find out.

MR. GREGORY: But you're confident it will.

SEN. McCONNELL: You know. Dan Balz wrote in the Post this morning the two models we've been looking at for six months, the Harry Truman model and the Bill Clinton model. Truman decided to run against the Congress, worked for him in 1948. Clinton decided to do things with the Congress, it worked for him in '96. Those are decisions the president's going to have to make. My view is, we're all here to do the people's business for the next two years. To the extent that the president wants to do things that I and my members are comfortable with, we want to do that for the country.

MR. GREGORY: Is he tougher than a lot of people think in terms of being politically vulnerable, in your mind?

SEN. McCONNELL: I--look, I, I like him personally. We have different political agendas, but some of--there, there will be some overlap, and hopefully we can find a way to work together.

MR. GREGORY: Before you go this morning, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"...

SEN. McCONNELL: Yes.

MR. GREGORY: ...the ban on gays and lesbians in the military, a lot of activity on that this week. Will that ban be lifted?

SEN. McCONNELL: It's a--you know, people are talking like that, that is the only issue. That defense bill also has abortions in military hospitals. Once you get on the defense bill, it typically takes two weeks. I don't see how we can possibly finish the Defense Authorization Bill, a two-week bill, wholly aside from these controversial items that are in it--there are a whole lot of other things in it--before the end of the year.

MR. GREGORY: All right. But even as you get into January, in your mind, do you think the support is there to lift the ban in Congress?

SEN. McCONNELL: Well, my, my personal view is that Senator McCain is correct on this. I intend to follow his lead. We'll find out when we finally get around to debating this bill, which I think will not be before the end of the year.

MR. GREGORY: All right. We'll leave it there. Senator McConnell, thank you very much for being here.

SEN. McCONNELL: Thank you.

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