CNN "State of the Union with Candy Crowley" - Transcript
Interview
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
CROWLEY: Joining me now here in Washington democratic Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon who voted aye on both those measures and Republican Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah who voted nay on both. Gentlemen, thank you so much.
We're now looking at reports from "New York Times" and elsewhere that a deal is in the making that would continue all tax cuts for two years, that would extend some other tax cuts that were in the stimulus plan, and would extend benefits for the long-term unemployed for a year. OK?
HATCH: Well, I think we can work that out, but the Republicans have been willing to extend the benefits, but we want them to be paid for. And we do have some extra funds that are available to pay for it. The Democrats don't seem to want to do that.
Secondly they want to end the make work pay which is another way of moving, since President Obama has become president the bottom 40% of all wage earners do not pay taxes. Now it's up to 49%. Then they want work to pay moving toward 60% and that's going to cost at least $60 billion more. I mean, it's just spending, spending, spending and taxing and taxing and taxing. That's what they seem to be doing.
CROWLEY: This sounds like a no to this plan now that's out there.
HATCH: No. I've suggested from the beginning, Republicans wanted all of the tax relief to be permanent.
CROWLEY: What would you be willing to give up? HATCH: The Democrats want to protect the middle class. I've said that neither side has the votes to get what they want so I think we're going to have to kick it over for about two years. We're going to have to do unemployment insurance, no question even though we're 100 weeks into unemployment insurance. We're going to have to do that. If you want to go beyond that then I think things break down.
CROWLEY: Senator Wyden.
WYDEN: Candy, if you like watching political games, this last week has been just ripe for you.
I just think when you look at those jobless numbers that came out last Friday what's needed is a different conversation, rankly an adult conversation. For example, this last Friday we saw that jobs in American manufacturing had gone down considerably. One of the reasons that we don't have manufacturing in the United States is the tax laws favor doing manufacturing overseas.
What I've been working on with one of Senator Hatch's colleague, Senator Gregg is legislation that would be bipartisan, that would cut the taxes for folks who manufacture in the United States by getting rid of the...
CROWLEY: You can't do that now in this process and I think what I'm hearing from both of you is there's so many things inside, OK, here's the deal that you know it is possible you won't get one. And I can't believe and I want you to answer, both of you, do you see Republicans walking away from this session without having extension of any tax cuts and do you see Democrats doing this? Would you really walk away without extending these tax cuts?
HATCH: I don't think we can. I think that would be disastrous. We're willing, it seems to me, we're willing to kick this over for about two or three -- well, I we would like it permanent, but we can't. We don't have the votes. Kick it over, let's take care of the unemployment compensation even if it isn't -- you know, even, it isn't backed up by real finances. We got to do it. So let's do it. But that ought to be it.
CROWLEY: You could do the unemployment extension without specifically taking money anywhere, I guess?
HATCH: Well, I think that's what's it's going to come down, because the Democrats don't want to put up the money for it, even the money is there. It's just one of those things, we're going to use the money for something else.
WYDEN: Candy, I would be willing to go along with a one year extension so we can protect the middle class, not do anything to discourage economic growth and give us the time to fix this job killing, insanely complicated mess of a tax system. What Washington is all about, this is a town driven by a culture of procrastination. If you don't force fast action, what you'll end up doing is just kicking the can down the road. And the only thing those jobless Americans are going to get is a really kicked can. CROWLEY: Will Democrats walk away this year if they don't get a compromise that they can deal with, will you walk away this year without extending those tax cuts?
WYDEN: I just suggested a compromise. I think...
CROWLEY: Right. What I mean is without a compromise would you say, OK, forget it, we're leaving?
WYDEN: I think Americans have made clear they want to see the middle class protected, they don't want to harm economic growth. But we're not going to be able to get the kind of job creation we need, the kind of job creation we need, based on those Friday jobless numbers, unless we have real reform.
For example the proposal Senator Gregg and I have authored, The Heritage Foundation, which I don't quote all the time, said that...
CROWLEY: It's a conservative -- we should say, it's a conservative think tank.
WYDEN: Said we would create 2.3 million new jobs per year. The Bush tax cuts, the "Wall Street Journal" has said those policies aren't creating a lot of jobs.
CROWLEY: Let me ask you. We are hearing a lot to the politics of it, which you mentioned earlier. We are hearing and have since the election on the House side as well as now on the Senate side a real fear, particularly on the left of center that the president is giving up too much, that he's going to compromise too much and give up too much ground as he moves toward a re-election cycle.
Are you worried about that?
WYDEN: There's no question that we're seeing a lot of the politics of 2012 played out now, but you're seeing it on both sides. And the country wants something different. I just got re-elected, Candy. But I did. Oregon has got 36 counties. I named a Democrat and a Republican as a co-chair in every single county, because I said if you elect me I'm going to go back there and try to go knock off this partisanship.
Senator Gregg and I have laid out a blueprint. We could have a one-year tax extension, put people back to work. Fix this job killing tax system. That's the kind of thing both parties ought to be working on rather than scoring political points. CROWLEY: Senator Hatch, while we're on the subject of political points it does seem that Republicans are stalling, that you know a more Republican Senate is coming in. Therefore, you want to kick the can down the road on such things as repeal of don't-ask, don't-tell or approval of the S.T.A.R.T. treaty. Isn't that sort of a logical conclusion here that you want more Republicans in there so you can get more of what you want?
HATCH: Not at all. As a matter of fact, we personally are very, very upset that if we extend tax -- if tax the way the president wants to do it, $200,000 or $250,000 or over and the way Chuck Schumer wanted to do it, you're talking about a loss of hitting 700,000 small business that create all our jobs. They are the job creators.
Under the president's program, under the Schumer program it would be at least 300,000 small businesses, that's where the jobs come from.
Look, we...
CROWLEY: ...give here on either side. Isn't that where the frustration...
HATCH: That isn't true. We are giving. In other words, we are trying to get it done. We want those tax -- that tax relief to be permanent. And most economists in this, who have any brains at all, know that you don't increase taxes even on the wealthy, if that's a valid point, you don't increase taxes during a recession. And if we do that, this economy is going to go worse.
We've just gone to 9.8%. We were 9.6%. That's only part of the problem. The underemployment rate is up around 18% when you count people who won't even try to get a job now.
Listen. These are important things. This isn't a Republican thing at all, it's what makes economic sense.
And look, Senator Wyden can talk about the Wyden-Gregg bill all he wants, that's not even part of this discussion at this time.
HATCH: We'll have to look at that after the first the year.
But we believe that unless you actually -- and to do it without putting it beyond the next presidential election just means we're going to have nothing but cat fights between now and then. Let's get it over.
CROWLEY: Let me get Senator Wyden in here with the last word on.
WYDEN: Candy, first of all, with respect, to compromise, what I'm suggesting is very much along the lines of what the deficit commission suggested just this past week.
HATCH: But it's not going anywhere.
WYDEN: That's number one. Number two, I think I'm giving plenty, much of my party doesn't want to extend the Bush tax cuts at all. I'm offering to go along with an extension for a year, to work with Senator Hatch, to go into the Finance Committee, take on the special interests, and do something that would actually put those jobless folks we heard about again this Friday to work.
CROWLEY: Senator Ron Wyden, Senator Orrin Hatch, thank you. You've got a busy week ahead of you. We'll see where this all comes out. I appreciate it.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
Source