MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript
Interview
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REP. JARED POLIS (D), COLORADO: You know, this has been incredibly active two years. You highlighted some of the achievements. Doesn"t mean that everybody agrees or disagrees with every one of those. They"re all controversial, but it would be hard for anybody to say that this president didn"t accomplish a lot, really on a historical scale, in those two years.
And a lot goes into the implementation phase over the next two years. It"s hard to take credit during the ugly sausage making process. And the Republicans made it--dirtied up the waters as much as possible. They made the--they extended the sausage making. And now it"s time to start taking credit and moving forward.
MATTHEWS: You know, Richard Wolffe is joining us right now.
You know, he got credit for bringing the unemployment rate back down to where he started, I mean, you know, morning in America.
(LAUGHTER)
MATTHEWS: There was a morning before he came along, you know?
How do you--this president seems to get a lot done. And if the unemployment rate goes down a couple points, is he going to be able to, at that point, get credit? Is that what we"re waiting for?
RICHARD WOLFFE, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well--
MATTHEWS: If the jobless level--jobless number goes down, then we look back and say, he"s done a pretty good job, but we won"t say that until then?
WOLFFE: It isn"t just one measure, right?
I mean, look, you saw him today. He looked like he was campaigning. He"s got a story to tell about the auto bailout, which everyone said was a terrible waste of money.
MATTHEWS: We have an auto industry.
WOLFFE: We have an auto industry. I had lunch with Paul Ryan in the middle of this, when he said, you know, just let the whole thing collapse. It doesn"t matter. We need to let things collapse. Well, how--
MATTHEWS: By the way, that"s the talk you get from guy that just won the Senate race in Pennsylvania, too.
WOLFFE: Right. Well, how are you going--how are going to--
MATTHEWS: Toomey.
WOLFFE: -- how are you going to win back votes in Upper Midwest by telling that kind of story for him. So, he"s got to go out there and talk about his record and Democrats do, too, because they have a story to tell now.
MATTHEWS: Well, that"s the question, Congressman--if moderate, you might even call it center-left politics. Let"s just call it center-left politics, which in this case, went along with Bush politics, which was we got to save our major industries. We can"t be so libertarian or so free market that we let the key industries die. And why is that not a sellable argument?
And why is the libertarians out there like Rand Paul and Toomey and those guys, and Paul Ryan, saying, let them die? How does that sell? Of course, because they didn"t die, I guess.
POLIS: Well, you know--a lot"s up to the implementation. I mean, do they do it well or do they do it poorly?
Frankly, I was skeptical about the involvement of the federal government in the automobile industry. It"s not something that I supported initially, but it would be hard for anybody not to say that it was implemented well. Taxpayers will be made whole and we kept a major American industry on its feet. And that"s something that the president should take credit for.
MATTHEWS: Let"s take a look at this new poll. It shows who should take policy lead in this country. Now, this is fairly damning. This is "New York Times"--"Wall Street Journal" poll that found the majority of country wants Congress, Richard, to take the lead: 52 percent compared to 39 percent for the president. Now, that is a verdict against him.
WOLFFE: Which part of Congress--the Democrats in the Senate or the Republicans in the House? I mean, we got a mixed verdict here.
MATTHEWS: Well, but right now, the Democrats control both houses at least through January. So, it must mean the Democrats.
WOLFFE: Right. You know, what"s interesting is seeing independents and Democrats saying they want to see compromise, they want to see these two sides working together. Republicans saying, no compromise, stick to your guns. I don"t know that people have really gained out what policies they want enacted here.
Clearly, economy is the most important thing. But Congress takes the lead? Who"s the leader here?
MATTHEWS: Let"s take a look at three things that are coming up right now, Congressman, before Christmas.
Number one, the Bush tax cuts. What is your bet now as a legislator representing a district in Colorado? What is your bet? Will we get a tax cut for everybody, a continued tax cut for everybody under $250,000 a year? Will we get that for sure or is that in jeopardy?
Let"s start with that question. Is that in jeopardy?
POLIS: Yes. I think the key thing that the president needs to accomplish and the Democrats need to accomplish is to extend those tax cuts for the middle class. We can"t let taxes go up for people making $60,000, $70,000, $80,000 a year on our watch. I think the president is exactly spot-on with that. If we have to deal to get the votes to that, so be it.
MATTHEWS: Would you give away the store to get? Would you give complete extension of all Bush tax cuts in order to protect those--people under $250,000 a year?
POLIS: Well, you know, it"s incumbent on the Republicans to figure
out how to pay for that. And so, we"re certainly--as the president said
--
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Not if you"re determined it. No. But you"ve just given away.
POLIS: It costs a lot of money to do that.
MATTHEWS: But you"ve said you"re determined to get the tax cuts for the people under $250,000 and the only way to do that is to get 60 votes in the Senate. You can"t get that without Republican help. They do have the ransom possibility here, don"t they?
POLIS: They do and I think one key thing to make sure we do that is that it"s a short-term extension for all the tax cuts.
MATTHEWS: I see.
POLIS: We"ll just do it for a year, pay for it for a year, and make sure it"s not permanent.
MATTHEWS: And let the Republicans come in next year and give the tax cuts to the rich. Ha! That"s what they will do.
Anyway, thank you, Congressman. It"s great to have you. Happy Thanksgiving to you for joining us on HARDBALL.
Richard Wolffe, sir--
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