CNN "State of the Union with Candy Crowley" - Transcript

Interview

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CROWLEY: We learned this week that technically, the recession ended over a year ago, June of 2009. But Americans do not live on technicalities. Reality is different. In the latest CNN poll, 74 percent of Americans said the economy is in a recession. 61 percent said President Obama's policies have made the economy worse. Just 36 percent said he has made things better.

Before the president faces voters again, there's time for the economy to turn around, time for him to win back the faithful. But the calendar is running out on Capitol Hill Democrats, who are facing dreary predictions and an election just a little over seven weeks away. Joining me now from Chicago, the majority whip in the U.S. Senate, Senator Dick Durbin. Thank you so much for joining us, Senator, from the beautiful city of Chicago, I should add.

DURBIN: It's great to be with you, Candy. Thank you.

CROWLEY: The man that you see now out talking at these town hall meetings and to these crowds, is that the same person you saw connecting with voters during the campaign?

DURBIN: Well, it is. With the same talents and the same values and the same determination. You know, there were dark days in that presidential campaign. I remember them. I was with then-Senator Barack Obama. And this man has a determination and an energy that comes into play if those moments, and you're seeing it now.

Candy, one of the key polls that we watch is the generic congressional race. Do you prefer a Democratic Congress or a Republican Congress? In an off-year election, it should be pretty strong on the Republican side. But did you notice what happened in the Gallup poll in the first 19 days of September? When the president was out working hard, as our candidates are working hard, the Republicans enjoy a one-point advantage nationwide. That's why they came out with this so-called Pledge for America.

CROWLEY: And I think a lot of people sort of argue with the generic poll, saying, well, that's a nationwide take, but it's not district by district. And when you hone in on those districts, it does show you all in trouble.

But I want to ask you another question about the president. The reason I ask is, the people that he's now facing are supporters. What happened? If the president hasn't changed, a lot of people complaining he's lost his ability to connect with voters, what has changed to turn these people away?

DURBIN: Well, I think what happened was the president, of course, promised change, and he believed that if he came to Washington and in good faith said to the Republicans, join me, we can compromise, we can solve our problems, that that would happen. Instead, the Republicans in Congress took this filibuster strategy in the Senate and said we will just not cooperate with the president on anything. No votes when it came to turning the recession around. Very few votes when it came to the whole question of health care reform. When it came to Wall Street reform, they just stood steadfast.

We were lucky in the Senate to get one, two, or three senators on the Republican side to join us. And I think that is what slowed the president down and slowed us down.

But we have still achieved some dramatic positive change. CROWLEY: Well, in fact, you passed all of those--

DURBIN: I would say this, the Republicans --

CROWLEY: Go ahead, I'm sorry. Go ahead, finish your thought.

DURBIN: I would just say, finish the thought by saying the president set out with the right agenda, with the right goals and believed he could do it in a bipartisan fashion. The Republican approach was filibuster, say no, try your best to defeat the president. And so there is some frustration.

CROWLEY: So absolutely no culpability on the part of Democrats or the White House. This is all the Republicans' fault that people are turning away from President Obama?

DURBIN: No, I'm never going to say that. And that would be naive to say that. We could have done some things better, but look where we are today. If we had not moved forward with a recovery plan, we would be in a deeper recession, maybe even a depression. Now, what does the Republican Pledge for America say? That is the original job killer strategy. They want to return to the Bush economic policies, policies that doubled the national debt and drove us into this recession. And they just proudly announced they want to return to them. Now we have a clear debate in this election, a clear difference, and that's what elections are about, choices. And the choices I think are very stark.

CROWLEY: I want to tell you about a poll that we found sort of interesting. This, again, from the CNN Opinion Research poll we took about mid-September. And we asked people their opinions of the views and policies of various groups, the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, and the Tea Party movement. 43 percent found the Tea Party movement too extreme; 42 percent found the Democratic Party too extreme. What accounts for that?

DURBIN: Well, it shows you what's happening in our country, unfortunately, in that people are hardening their positions on both ends of the spectrum. But there is some other polling data that I think we ought to look at. If you ask the American people what's the number-one issue in this election, jobs. And then you say, which party do you trust when it comes to jobs and unemployment the most? The Democrats have a 13-point lead over the Republicans. The Republicans, while asking for tax cuts for the wealthy, have refused time and again to give unemployment benefits to those who have lost their job through no fault of their on. So on the basic core, major issue, Democrats are in a strong position.

Let's say a word about the Tea Party. When the Tea Party becomes the gatekeeper of a Republican primary, we end up with contests we never dreamed of. Who would have guessed that today we would be taking an honest look at Alaska, Delaware, and Kentucky, where we clearly have races where the Democrats can win? Or Florida, which is in turmoil because of the Tea Party.

I think that shows the Tea Party position is too extreme for most voters. And I think we're going to do well in those states.

CROWLEY: Let me ask you about some governance here. The president has an opening. Larry Summers is leaving, director of the National Economic Council. What kind of person should the president put in that job, his top economic adviser?

DURBIN: Well, he needs to bring a person in that job who really understands that creating jobs in America is our highest priority. And let me tell you, one of the president's planks in this platform and running is one we're taking to the floor of the Senate this week. It's a question about whether we will change the tax code so we stop rewarding American companies that ship jobs overseas.

I want to make sure that good, patriotic American corporations, who keep jobs here in America, with good wages and good benefits, are rewarded and we don't create incentives to send jobs overseas. The Republicans consistently vote against us. That's an issue we want to take into this election. I hope that they'll break ranks and join us this week in closing these tax loopholes that help these companies ship jobs overseas, and I hope the president's advisers and team will be working hard on that issue.

CROWLEY: Let me just follow up on that last question, and that is, do you think because the president has this -- there's a feeling in the business community that the president is anti-business. Would it help him to put someone in there with some real world experience in business? The rap has been he's got a lot of academics in there, but no one that totally understands business. Would you like to see that?

DURBIN: Well, of course, I want someone who's balanced, who can work with business and work with working people and labor unions, someone who really sees the whole picture.

But let me step back for a second and say, some of the criticism coming from the business community is coming from the Wall Street financial firms, which took the federal bailout funds and sent a thank-you letter to Washington in terms of bonuses for the people who guided their corporations and banks into their disastrous policies. So I don't have a lot of sympathy for their antipathy towards the president. The president did what he need to do, and Congress did, too, with Wall Street financial reform. And again, the Republicans opposed us when we said that we wanted to make sure we never go through a bailout again, we don't want to go down this path again, where these large corporation abuse their practices and lead us into a recession. CROWLEY: Stick with me a minute here, Senator Durbin, who will be with us right after this break when we talk about why Democrats are waiting until after the election to vote on extending the Bush tax cuts.

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CROWLEY: By September of an election year, the House and Senate floors are basically extensions of the campaign trail. Thursday, Senate Democrats postponed until after the election a vote on extending Bush-era tax cuts due to expire at the end of the year. Some Democrats in dicey elections worry the debate might hurt them back home, and Republicans want extensions for all tax-payers, not just the middle class.

In short, the Democratic leadership didn't have the 60 votes needed to break a filibuster. Ditto for the following list of items near and dear to the Democratic base: the DISCLOSE Act, a campaign finance reform bill to undo a Supreme Court ruling which lifted spending restrictions on political ads from corporations and unions, one vote short; the repeal of "Don't Ask/Don't Tell," the policy which prohibits gays and lesbians from serving openly in the U.S. military, four votes short; so was the DREAM Act, which would put children brought to the U.S. illegally on the path to citizenship if they spend two years serving in the military or attending college.

All of these bills are important to Democratic constituencies, but postponing the vote on extending Bush tax cuts to the middle class, also likely to be delayed in the House, seemed to hit a raw nerve with liberals.

New York Times columnist Paul Krugman wrote: "I guess the Blue Dogs really want to be in the minority." The Bush tax cuts and more with Senator Dick Durbin, next.

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CROWLEY: We are back with Democratic Majority Whip Senator Dick Durbin.

Senator, let's talk about the decision in the Senate to postpone the tax cut extensions until after the elections in a lame duck session. Congressman Boehner, the top Republican in the House, has said, if Congress leaves without acting on those tax cuts, it's the most irresponsible thing he has seen in quite a while. Why do you think you're not going to take flak back home for not acting on these tax cuts?

DURBIN: Well, first, a word about John Boehner. It wasn't that long ago on a Sunday show that he said he would accept the Democratic compromise. He got beaten up so badly by the right-wing of his party he recanted that position the next day.

But we know where the Democrats and Republicans stand when it comes to tax cuts. The president has articulated the position the vast majority of Democrats in the Senate and the House support. And that is that we would extend the tax cuts for those who make $250,000 a year or less. That is I think a sensible thing to do to help the middle class in America, bring us out of this recession, but not to make the deficit dramatically worse. What's the Republicans position?

CROWLEY: Sure, I mean, we understand sort of the positions that the Republicans want the extensions to also go to the wealthy. That the Democrats by and large want them just to go to the middle class. But the question is, why go and delay this until after the elections? Put it up to a vote, do it now.

DURBIN: Candy, I can count and I know you can, too. We have 59 Democrats and not a single Republican in the Senate supports our position that we need to do something that's responsible to reduce our deficit, but also to help middle-income families, bring us out of this recession. Look at the two major issues.

CROWLEY: Why will that be different after the election?

DURBIN: Well, I hope it will be different. Occasionally one Republican will break ranks and help us. Let me give an example. Tomorrow, President Obama is going to sign the small business credit bill to help create jobs in small businesses all across America.

We had one Republican after a month, a solid month of filibustering, George Voinovich of Ohio, retiring Republican, said, I'm tired of the game-playing here, I'm going to vote with the Democrats to help small businesses. That's what it took, a whole month.

And now we have a food safety bill I've been working on for over a year, 19 Democrats and Republicans support it, one Republican, Tom Coburn, a medical doctor from Oklahoma, has stopped the food safety bill. Another filibuster.

You know, what it gets down to is we can count and we know we don't have 60 votes for our tax position. We want to basically say after the election when we still face a deadline, by the end of the year we'll take up all of these tax issues. That to me is the only realistic way to address it.

CROWLEY: You don't have all of the Democratic votes in the Senate either, do you?

DURBIN: Well, here's what I think, Some Democrats would say, well, perhaps we would do it a little bit differently. But if that position doesn't prevail, and I don't think it will, then the ultimate choice is going to be whether or not we have the $250,000 income threshold for these tax cuts. And I think at that time we'll have the support of all the Democrats as well as some Republicans.

CROWLEY: In our remaining couple of minutes, let's talk some good, solid politics. You talked about openings you now see in Alaska, Delaware, Kentucky, and Nevada. What's the risk you're underestimating the tea party's strength?

DURBIN: Well, I can tell you the tea party's strength. Let's look at the state of Delaware. Politico did a survey after Ms. O'Donnell won the primary. Sixty percent of the voters in Delaware said she was unqualified to be a United States senator.

Take a look at the situation in Alaska. Lisa Murkowski has decided to run a write-in campaign against Mr. Miller, who won on the -- under the tea party banner. And now our candidate, McAdam, has a fighting chance to be the new senator from Alaska. The same thing is true when you look around at Florida.

This was supposed to be a runaway for Rubin, but I will tell you, as the votes start coming down, it's not as clear. So the message is this, when the tea party serves as the gatekeeper for the Republican Party, the most extreme candidates win.

DURBIN: And then people have to ask themselves, is this what we really want in the United States Senate, whether it's in Nevada or in Alaska or in Delaware?

We have a chance in those states, and more than a chance in Nevada, where Harry Reid is ahead and is going to win.

CROWLEY: Two quick questions for you, Senator. Define a good election night for Democrats this November. What does that mean to you?

DURBIN: Off-year elections are rarely kind to the incumbent president. If we maintain, and I believe we will, our majorities in the Senate and in the House, working majorities that we can work with this president to solve the problems of this country, it will be a good election night.

CROWLEY: And finally, just a little local question for you. The president may also lose his chief of staff. So I was wondering how Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel sounds to you.

DURBIN: I can tell you that, as you walk down Michigan Avenue in Chicago, you bump into at least two or three wannabe candidates for mayor. It is so rare that the Daley opportunity is gone and he is retiring after a wonderful service as our mayor. And now we have an opening here that you have candidates from all over the city announcing their interest.

I'm not kidding. There have got to be 10 or 20 viable names that are out there. And I have said publicly to Rahm Emanuel, if you want to run, you can't do it from the White House. You need do it from the loop in Chicago.

CROWLEY: No endorsement today, though?

DURBIN: No.

(LAUGHTER)

CROWLEY: Thanks so much. Senator Dick Durbin, we appreciate the time.

DURBIN: Thank you, Candy.

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