Panel One of a Hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee - The Middle East Road Map

Federal News Service

HEADLINE: PANEL ONE OF A HEARING OF THE SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE

SUBJECT: THE MIDDLE EAST ROAD MAP

CHAIRED BY: SENATOR RICHARD LUGAR (R-IN)

WITNESS: DAVID SATTERFIELD, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR NEAR EASTERN AFFAIRS

LOCATION: 419 DIRKSEN SENATE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

BODY:
SEN. CHAFEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome. In your statement, Mr. Secretary, you said that Israeli disengagement from Gaza done properly and with appropriate support from the international community has the potential to move both parties to the conflict closer to the realization of the ultimate goal to the road map, which is living side-by-side in peace and security. In the international community, and now we have a ruling by the international court, and I know the position of the administration, it shouldn't even have been there, but, nonetheless, we have our allies, Norway, the U.K., Holland, China, Russia, all who sit on this court advising us to be more involved in the construction or the route of this barrier. How do you reconcile your urging us to get the support from the international community in your statement in order to move the road map forward while not adhering to what they're saying on the international court?

MR. SATTERFIELD: Senator, if I could respond first to Senator Biden's question. You had asked in the closing part of your questions, Senator, what would we do, what should we do to best advance this process. What we should do is continue to articulate as clearly, as explicitly as we can, directly to the parties through private conversation and publicly the vision that lays out there for both sides of peace, lasting peace, and of genuine enduring security. And the pathway that takes them to that goal, we have done so, we have articulated not only the goal, two states, but the road map to that goal, a pragmatic, practical approach which requires both sides to engage in phased, and sequential obligations and responsibilities, both to each other and to the achievement of the ultimate objective of lasting, sustainable peace.

Now, the parties themselves do, indeed, have the primary responsibility for taking the steps, and they're painful steps. They're steps that require courage and sustained leadership in order to be meaningful, in order to work. They have the prime responsibility, but we do have to remain engaged. Our diplomatic engagement has not wavered over the past months, over the past years, since the president's engagement Akaba and Sharmel Sheikh. We have been in touch not only directly with the parties on a continuing basis in the course of the last month, Assistant Secretary Burns, Deputy National Security Advisor Hadley and I have all traveled the region, and there will be further such travel in the weeks and months ahead, but we have also remained engaged with our international and regional partners.

SEN. BIDEN: Was there a reason why Sharon didn't see you?

MR. SATTERFIELD: The meeting was not sought. This was an operational meeting, Mr. Senator, to meet with Palestinian leadership, both individually and with a quartet combined meeting, and to talk about technical issues relating to withdrawal with Israeli officials, and no other reason than that.

We continue to be engaged with the international community, with our quartet partners, to ensure a unified voice on the need for security steps, on the need for reform. And with Israel our message has been very clear, Israel, too, has obligations and responsibilities, humanitarian and political, including on the settlements issue, both steps toward a settlement freeze, and the elimination of settlement outposts.

These are not easy issues, Mr. Senator, as you referred to. They're difficult, but they need to be advanced, because if Gaza withdrawal is to be successful, it must occur in a context, not alone. It can't be Gaza first and Gaza last. Gaza withdrawal, as we've emphasized, and will continue to emphasize, must be seen squarely in the context of return to progress on the roadmap towards the two-state vision. And we see that as possible, we see it as achievable. But, it is going to require efforts by the Palestinians on security and leadership transformation. It's going to require efforts by Israel in Gaza and the West Bank that it wrest the humanitarian, political, and economic issues that are so critical to the goals we are trying to see achieved.

You had asked, first though, about Egyptian contributions to this policy. We believe Egypt is, indeed, a key player here on security. And we are committed to supporting Egypt's role. What does Egypt need? Egypt needs a secure environment in Gaza, it needs an environment in which whatever advisors or trainers it sends can do their work, free of attack, free of danger. That's a goal we all support.

The answer on how you achieve that situation is a meaningful cease-fire, a meaningful end to violence an terror, an end to the kids of actions that precipitate a continued destruction of lives, continued destruction of property. We see it as doable. And Egypt is working in these months, prior to withdrawal, to see that that is achieved.

SEN. LUGAR: Let me now just sort out the situation for a moment, because I appreciate those excellent responses to my colleagues questions, and will restore Senator Chafee his full time, and then just for the sake of argument, I'll recognize then Senator Boxer, Senator Dodd, and Senator Biden on this side for additional questions, with Senator Hagel intervening between these folks.

Now, Senator Chafee, you're restored to your rightful place.

SEN. CHAFEE: Should I repeat my question?

MR. SATTERFIELD: Senator, we indeed need the support of the international community, and we need it in two different ways. We need their positive engagement and support as we move ahead, to speak with a unified voice, not many disparate voices, about the need for the critical performance by the Palestinians on security and leadership. We need their support in our engagement with Israel in a way that encourages Israel to take the necessary steps to move forward.

The quartet is the embodiment of the international will on these issues, and we have been remarkably successful in our engagement with the quartet over the course of the past two years, in trying to close off the different voices, the disparate voices, that so often led to confusion. But, we need the international community's support in another way. We need an avoidance of the sorts of unprofitable, unconstructive efforts, such as the International Court of Justice ruling, that only complicate efforts to see peace achieved. Our position on the ICJ consideration of this case has been made very clear, and we had support from our critical partners in the international community on this, before the court took this issue. We don't believe it is an appropriate issue to be addressed by the ICJ. The United States will not support any purported endorsement of that ICJ ruling, and we are working with our partners, both in the quartet and more generally, to mobilize a support against an unhelpful resolution from the General Assembly, or an unhelpful, counterproductive resolution that may be brought to the Security Council.

You had raised, Senator, the issue of the participation of judges from those countries that we have relied upon for support in this process. My understanding, Senator, and I will defer to our legal experts on this, is that those judges, once they are appointed to the ICJ, function in an independent fashion, which does not necessarily reflect the foreign policy, the national policy of their countries of origin.

SEN. CHAFEE: Going back to Senator Biden's statement that a year ago, almost exactly a year ago, there was so much optimism coming out of Aqaba, and you alluded to it yourself, and Abu Mazen, and coming here, and Senator Biden said we didn't deliver for him so he could deliver to his people. I remember him coming a year ago and saying, please, help me. And he had three issues, the settlements, the continued expansion of the settlements, the construction of the barrier, the route of the barrier, it's not the construction, I want to make that clear, it's the route, and also the holding of prisoners without charges.

Senator Biden said-and at that time there was a ceasefire, the hudna, if you will, seven week period of no violence, relatively no violence, and now the international court, which you keep mentioning the quartet, here they are, the United Nations European community, here we all are, and they're 14 to 1, urging us to address the route of this barrier.

It seems to me still difficult for us to make progress without taking this ruling into consideration. I know the Israeli court has ruled, but if it's still going to be built beyond the green line, I think that's where the controversy is. What's our official position on that, the building of it outside of the green line?

MR. SATTERFIELD: Senator, we have expressed a strong concern over the routing of the fence, where it impacts humanitarian or human issues, the lives of Palestinians, the livelihoods of Palestinians, where it produces the confiscation of Palestinian land, and when that court impacts, pre-judges the outcome of permanent status resolutions.

The Israeli high court judgment is a significant event. It is being taken quite seriously by the government of Israel. While I would defer to them, in terms of the ultimate choices which they are now forced to make with respect to the routing of the fence, our hope is that the high court judgment produces change on the ground, which rectify, which address these concerns which we and others have addressed for so long.

Israel does, indeed, have the right to defend itself, including through construction of a security barrier. But, where the course of that barrier has the impacts that I described, there are real concerns here, which the administration will continue to address. We don't see that the ICJ judgment is a constructive judgment. Indeed, we have significant problems with the substance of the judgment, and the matter in which the court took on this issue. We believe the Israeli high court, its decisions, and the response of the Israeli government to those decisions offers the best potential for serious address of this question.

SEN. CHAFEE: That all having been said, and we could argue some of those points, but if we're going to get the international community, as you say in your statement, on our side, isn't this a factor? If we're going to have the quartet, if we're going to have the international community helping us here, whether it's the Egyptians or anybody else that might not have been part of this ruling, don't you think we have to be stronger on the route of this barrier?

MR. SATTERFIELD: I believe, Senator, we have been quite strong on the routing of the barrier. Our concerns have been made very clear by all U.S. government interlocutors to the government of Israel. They understand the president is concerned over the routing of the barrier, and its impact on permanent status negotiations, and on Palestinian lives. We see the ICJ judgment, though, as only affording an opening for unhelpful, provocative resolutions in the General Assembly, and potentially in the Council, which has very little to do with advancing the cause of peace. We are confident that appropriate steps will be taken by the government of Israel, to address the routing related issues, but we are not prepared, Senator, to support in any way the findings of the ICJ in this regard.

SEN. CHAFEE: Even if that means lack of participation on the roadmap?

MR. SATTERFIELD: Senator, I do not believe in practice, indeed I am quite confident in practice, that whatever positions may ultimately be chosen in general assembly debate, or council debate on this particular issue, the ICJ judgment, that we will continue to have the engagement and support of our critical partners, in the region and in the international community through the quartet and elsewhere for the roadmap.

SEN. CHAFEE: I've got a few seconds left. Do you know, and maybe I'm putting you on the spot, where in specific do you take exception to the court's ruling?

MR. SATTERFIELD: Two different issues, primarily. One is procedural, for the court to take up an issue --

SEN. CHAFEE: Beyond that, I know that argument, anything beyond that?

MR. SATTERFIELD: On the substance, we believe this is essentially a political issue, to be resolved by agreement of the parties, in negotiations, not for resolution by a judicial council, or judicial body.

SEN. CHAFEE: Thank you.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

SEN. CHAFEE: I just want to follow up on some of the questions that have been answered subsequent to my question, and about the engagement and the commitment, and your own testimony that the president believes in this two states living side-by-side. One of the fervent opponents of any land for peace and one that has written that the West Bank essentially should be Israeli territory is David Wormser, who the vice president hired as his Middle East advisor. Have you met with him?

MR. SATTERFIELD: Mr. Senator, I would respectfully decline an answer. I know Mr. Wormser, but this is a domestic issue.

SEN. CHAFEE: Has he expressed his opinions to the Department of State?

MR. SATTERFIELD: I really couldn't comment on that issue.

SEN. CHAFEE: I think this leads to a lot of our uneasiness about the president's commitment to what he's saying and leading to some of the other questions that I've heard here this morning.