News Forum - Transcript

NEWS FORUM

SHOW: News Forum (6:30 AM ET) - LOCAL

HEADLINE: Senator Charles Schumer discusses national and international politics

ANCHORS: GABE PRESSMAN

BODY:
GABE PRESSMAN, host:

(Joined in progress) to raise money and to preach an old Democratic religion. Claiming to represent the middle and working classes, promising to preserve Social Security and to fight for family values. New York's senior senator, Democrat Charles Schumer, is an important player in the national ticket's effort to carry New York. Schumer has been the most visible presence on the New York political scene since he defeated Republican Senator D'Amato in '98. He has spoken out often on issues ranging from the alleged torture of Iraqi prisoners to getting federal money for transportation needs and to provide middle-income housing and health care. Here he's raised $21 million for his campaign, about 147 times more than his Republican opponent, Howard Mills, a little-known upstate assemblyman. And there's speculation the senator may ultimately have his eye on the governor's mansion in Albany.

Announcer: From Studio 6B in Rockefeller Center, this is a presentation from News Channel 4: Gabe Pressman's NEWS FORUM. Now your host, senior correspondent Gabe Pressman.

PRESSMAN: Good morning, Senator Schumer.

Senator CHARLES SCHUMER (Democrat, New York): Good morning, Gabe.

PRESSMAN: And welcome. It's reported that Osama bin Laden is planning an al-Qaida effort to attack the United States perhaps during the conventions, perhaps during the election itself this year. Is homeland security and the federal government doing enough?

Sen. SCHUMER: I wish I could say yes, but the answer is no, Gabe. You know, my motto in the post-9/11 world is you can't be too careful, and unfortunately, these days the Internet which has done so much good here gives the terrorists an eye into whatever we're doing. So if we strengthen up air security, they look at the ports, and if we strengthen the ports, they look at the trains. They look for our weak pressure point. And unfortunately, in both the administration and the Congress, there's too much a view we don't have to do much on homeland security. We're doing a little; we're safer than we were 9/10/01. We're not doing close to enough if you believe we're on a war footing and the terrorists are going to try to hurt us again.

PRESSMAN: Are there abuses, for instance, the arrest of Ansar Mahmoud in Kingston, New York, the Pakistani who was working seven days a week delivering pizzas to support his family in Pakistan...

Sen. SCHUMER: Well...

PRESSMAN: ...who was arrested for taking pictures near a water treatment plant.

Sen. SCHUMER: Right. Well, he was taking pictures, as it turned out, of the beautiful scenery up in the Hudson Valley...

PRESSMAN: He loved the Hudson, yeah.

Sen. SCHUMER: ...but this poor guy was taking the pictures two days after 9/11 and he looked Pakistani, and so they arrested him. And as you know, I've worked hard to try and see that he not be deported. He's already been punished; he served his time. But they're going to deport him, and that's not fair. Instead of doing things like that...

PRESSMAN: Have you done anything recently to try to stop that deportation?

Sen. SCHUMER: Yeah, I called just Thursday-I called Mr. Garcia, Commissioner Garcia-he's the head of the new agency called BICE, which was the INS, and I made a compassionate plea. I said, 'Sir, if you look at this case, you will know-everyone agrees-that Mr. Mahmoud had nothing to do with terrorism.' And you know, look, no one's tougher than me in going after the terrorists.

PRESSMAN: And he has a lot of support from the...

Sen. SCHUMER: Yeah.

PRESSMAN: ...Kingston people.

Sen. SCHUMER: You know, of course you go after terrorists. But it's un-American because somebody looks a certain way to say they have more of a proclivity to be a terrorist than someone else.

PRESSMAN: So what did-what did he say?

Sen. SCHUMER: He said he'd look at it again, but they have this new policy up there at the new INS. It's called zero tolerance. And even when-in the old days they'd have something called humanitarian parole. If someone made a mistake-this poor guy-this poor schnook, had the wrong lawyer. And so when he went originally before the immigration judge, he wasn't really represented.

PRESSMAN: And the lawyer told him to plead guilty.

Sen. SCHUMER: Yeah, exactly. And he shouldn't have. And so in those cases, until a couple of years ago, you had something called humanitarian parole and there'd be very few, but in unusual cases that cried out for justice, they'd reverse it. They're now saying they're not going to use humanitarian parole. I have even a worse one I'm working on where they could send a man to his death 'cause he's an Eritrean, who they'd have to send back to Ethiopia and there's a civil war over there, and I'm trying to save him. But so far, not getting as much response as I would like.

PRESSMAN: The Democrats made an effort this week in the House that failed by one vote to prevent the government from demanding records from libraries and from booksellers. Do you see any chance of the Senate voting in favor of restricting the government...

Sen. SCHUMER: Well, no. Now that the House has don-there's a broad coalition. The Patriot Act-some of my friends on the left overdo it. The Patriot Act had a lot of good things in it, and when we have a war on terrorism, the balance between liberty and security, which is the age-old balance in this country, does have to shift. But there are certain excesses in the Patriot Act, and there is a coalition-Democrats and Republicans-who are trying to get it changed. It won't happen this year. It does sunset-the whole Patriot Act sunsets in 2005 next year, and it'll be re-examined, and I have a feeling what they tried to do in the House will actually come to pass, and other things, too.

PRESSMAN: The Republican national tre-chairman is trying to make the word 'liberal' a basic issue in this campaign. You're about to run for re-election; you are running for re-election. And I'm wondering do you regard 'liberal' as a dirty word?

Sen. SCHUMER: No, it's chor-of a label that people try to put on you. I mean, I guess I defy beliefs. I'm a tough-on-crime guy, probably to the right of a lot of New Yorkers; on foreign policy I'm probably to the right side of my party. But on some of the-you know, on gun control, I'm probably the leading advocate in the whole Senate. So it's hard to put labels, but let me tell you something, Gabe. The way I've tried to play politics, to do politics, to be an elected official is forget labels. Think of the average person. I have a guy in my head I always think of. He's fictional, but I know who he is. His name is Joe O'Reilly. He lives in Massapequa. He's an insurance salesman. He's got three kids, and he's trying to make ends meet. He sits down to dinner at his wife-after dinner with his wife Friday night and says, 'How am I going to make this paycheck cover all my needs-putting the kid through college, health care for Grandma who doesn't have a good health-care plan for prescription drugs, saving up so we can take the family on that nice vacation we've dreamed about all year to Disney World?' That's who you think of. And if you think of helping that person, labels roll right off your back.

PRESSMAN: So you're against labels.

Sen. SCHUMER: Yeah, well, those kinds. Labeling for consumer goods-that's a good idea.

PRESSMAN: What about the latest Bush campaign commercial that criticizes Kerry-your candidate-for voting against legislation that makes it a separate offense to kill-murder a woman-a Laci Peterson bill it's called...

Sen. SCHUMER: Yeah. Yeah.

PRESSMAN: ...and also murder the fetus that she's carrying if she's pregnant?

Sen. SCHUMER: Right. Well, you know, the bill really was a bill-are you pro-choice or pro-life, because they said if you're carrying a fetus before the sec-third trimester, which our Supreme Court does not regard as a life-some people do in their religion and I respect it-you should get an extra penalty. So it really was simply a pro-choice, pro-life argument, nothing to do with safety, nothing to do with a woman's-the-going after somebody who murders anybody and, as I say, I'm a tough-on-crime guy. The bottom line is I thought it was sort of demagogic for them to do it. But my advice-I just-you know, Kerry and Edwards were here this week, and my advice to them: Talk to average folks. Forget all the political Sturm and Drang. Bush campaign-they're very negative. They're going to throw everything they can at you. You talk to average people and show them how you're going to make their lives better, and you'll win. You let them divert you off course and get into one of these dumb partisan Washington debates, you lose.

PRESSMAN: Even as Tom Ridge warns of renewed dangers of terrorist attacks this summer, are the Saudis still giving support to terrorist groups and individuals?

Sen. SCHUMER: Yes. Yes.

PRESSMAN: Right here in this country?

Sen. SCHUMER: The Saudis have played a tricky and really duplicitous game. They have always said to the terrorists, 'We'll help you quietly. You leave us alone.' 'Cause the royal family knows they're not big...

PRESSMAN: So even as Ridge warns us of terrorist attacks this summer, they're being financed by the Saudis?

Sen. SCHUMER: Saudi groups. Not the government itself, but leaders of the Saudi society continue to fund the schools that teach terrorism, some of the militant organizations. Now in all fairness, the Saudis didn't help us one bit after 9/11. They didn't give a darn what happened to us. But when the terrorists started attacking them in Riyadh and in some of the other cities where the oil is, now they're starting to get religion. But unfortunately, they've been in bed with terrorists for so long that the two were so tightly wound that they can't extricate themselves.

PRESSMAN: But even now you're saying that the Saudis are financing terrorist...

Sen. SCHUMER: Yeah.

PRESSMAN: ...groups?

Sen. SCHUMER: Saudi individuals, Saudi leaders, Saudi groups-part of the establishment of Saudi Arabia, part of the royal family are still funding terrorism and terrorist schools.

PRESSMAN: What proof do you have of this?

Sen. SCHUMER: Well, first, there is all kinds of proof that traces things financially, and the Saudi government says, 'Well, we're doing everything we can to prevent it.' Bull. The Saudi interior minister-the number three person, Prince Nayef who's one of the leaders and a relative of the royal family-he is still talking favorably about terrorism. When they blew up the thing in-when they blew up the thing in Riyadh, he said, 'Well, that's a Zionist plot; that's not terrorists.' This is who they have in charge.

PRESSMAN: Do you think that this government should do something? Go to the Saudi government and say, 'Dry up those sources of funds?'

Sen. SCHUMER: You bet. There's been much too close a relationship between the Saudi royal family and the White House...

PRESSMAN: So-so...

Sen. SCHUMER: ...and big oil, and I think we have to be much tougher with the Saudis. And by the way, that is the only thing that will preserve Saudi Arabia. This royal family for its duplicity-the Saudi people don't even like them.

PRESSMAN: You think that Ridge, if he really is serious, would go to Colin Powell and go to the president and say, 'Hey, let's stop this money'?

Sen. SCHUMER: Oh, I think-I know that there are people in the White House and in the administration have gone to them and said, 'You've got to be a lot tougher,' but hasn't happened.

PRESSMAN: The UN's highest judicial authority, the International Court of Justice, has just decided that Israel's planned 425-mile security barrier on the West Bank violates international law and must be dismantled.

Sen. SCHUMER: Right.

PRESSMAN: Your reaction to that?

Sen. SCHUMER: You know, I think the International Court discredits itself when it does that. What is a fence? A fence is defensive. The only reason the Israelis are building a fence is because they want to prevent individuals from coming into their country, going on buses, going in supermarkets, blowing themselves up and killing individual people.

PRESSMAN: So are you-so are you...

Sen. SCHUMER: I think it's an outrage, and my guess is if any other country built a fence the International Court would not condemn them. Only when Israel does it, and there's something at play there.

PRESSMAN: So as a lawyer, you're not upholding international law here.

Sen. SCHUMER: Well, this is not-this is the International Court making an advisory opinion; has nothing to do with real international law. But it's one of the reasons some of us have distrust of the International Court. They apply a double standard. All the abuses that go on in other countries far greater than Israel's-and I'm not saying Israel's perfect; they're not-but the other abuses they ignore and then they go after Israel. Why?

PRESSMAN: Well, let's come back and finish that discussion after this.

(Announcements)

PRESSMAN: We're back here with Senator Schumer.

Senator, we were talking about the barrier...

Sen. SCHUMER: Yeah.

PRESSMAN: ...the wall that Sharon built in Israel. And...

Sen. SCHUMER: By the way, in the northern part of Israel where the wall's complete...

PRESSMAN: Yeah.

Sen. SCHUMER: ...not a single incident of terrorism since the wall has been done.

PRESSMAN: Right. But what about the Palestinian farmers and the others who try to go to work and they-and they're delayed beyond belief...

Sen. SCHUMER: Right.

PRESSMAN: ...and they've lost their jobs, etc.? What about the economic and the social impact on the...

Sen. SCHUMER: Well...

PRESSMAN: ...Palestinians?

Sen. SCHUMER: ...and it shows you what a democracy Israel is that U-the Is-the US-the Israeli Supreme Court said they had to make the fence as if-they needed it; they said it was perfectly OK to build it. But in-they should go out of their way to avoid dividing Palestinian towns or a farmer from his land. And I think in three places they're making them redo the fence. So you try to be as humane as possible, but, Gabe, let me ask you a question. If people were infiltrating from Mexico or Canada and they were sort of blowing up our citizens going to shopping malls, would we-we built a fence on our southern border for immigration purposes. I mean, it's-you can't ask a country to g-to smile at its own destruction. And that's what they're trying to do.

My belief is-and I know this is not, you know, accepted-there are large numbers of Palestinians, even a majority, who really don't want Israel there at all. They say, 'That was a European problem; you go solve it yourselves.' Until they learn that Israel's going to stay there and has a right to exist, there's not going to be peace, and the fence will help convince them of that. When Sharon built the fence, he was basically saying to the Palestinians, 'We believe in a two-state solution, but if you're not ready to negotiate with us,' which Arafat has never been, 'then we're going to make the boundaries ourselves.'

PRESSMAN: Let's talk about the $21 million I believe that you've raised.

Sen. SCHUMER: Yeah.

PRESSMAN: You're running for re-election.

Sen. SCHUMER: Yeah.

PRESSMAN: You're running against a guy named Ho-Howard Mills. Howard who? Nobody knows who he is. He's-looks like a sacrificial lamb. Are you going to spend all that money to defeat Howard Mills?

Sen. SCHUMER: You know, we haven't even really started the campaign. My belief is the best way to get re-elected as senator is to continue to try and do the best job I can as senator. So if you look at my calendar, this week-it's the same as it was this week a year ago. I don't mean going to the same events, but...

PRESSMAN: I know.

Sen. SCHUMER: ...the same type of thing. Helping people, bringing money to New York, solving problems whether they be individual or community problems, working on legislation, and so far so good, if you can believe the polls. You knows? The public is pleased with the job I'm doing, so I'm just going to keep doing it. I haven't announced yet. I'm trying to continue to be a good senator, and that's the best way to rin re-election. I don't look over my shoulder at who my opponent is or what they're doing or whatever.

PRESSMAN: Your presumed opponent, Mr. Mills...

Sen. SCHUMER: Presumed, yeah.

PRESSMAN: ...he says that on the eve-on the eve of his announcement he said that he'll plant 25 trees to replace the trees killed to furnish the paper for your press releases.

Sen. SCHUMER: That should be the worst thing he says.

PRESSMAN: Do you look forward to campaigning against him?

Sen. SCHUMER: Well, what I look forward to-I love people and getting out in this state. I go to all corners. I made a promise-you know, when I ran I didn't travel the state that much 'cause I'd won the primary in September and I only had eight weeks, you know, and I had Al D'Amato, who you showed on the screen there. Very formidable. So I made a promise my first year I'd visit every one of the 62 counties my next year. It was so helpful in terms of learning the state, finding out what people's problems are. I've done it every year since. I'm in the process of doing it again this year. And you know, I-I stay active. God blessed me with a lot of energy. That's one thing you cannot accuse Chuck Schumer of is not having enough energy or working hard enough, and I love going out there, meeting the people, seeing the people. So that's what I'm continuing to do. And I enjoy it. So I'm looking forward to continuing doing that. You know, I-I don't think it's going to be too much different than the job I've done over the last five years.

PRESSMAN: Are you willing to debate Mr. Mills?

Sen. SCHUMER: I'm sure there will be a tim-we haven't even gotten into discussions, but there'll be some debates, sure.

PRESSMAN: Would you be willing to debate him here?

Sen. SCHUMER: Oh, you always ask that. We'll set up a schedule, but you'll be way at the top of the list, Gabe.

PRESSMAN: He charges that you chartered private planes 603 times and spent $409,000 to fly around the state...

Sen. SCHUMER: Yeah.

PRESSMAN: ...ostensibly on official business, but also to campaign.

Sen. SCHUMER: Right.

PRESSMAN: Is there any truth to that?

Sen. SCHUMER: No, I mean, first he calls it the luxury jets. It's a single propeller plane. It's shorter than me. You can fit three people in it, and my staff is scared to death if they have to travel with me.

PRESSMAN: I think I traveled with Harriman on a-on a plane like that many years ago.

Sen. SCHUMER: It's called a Beechcraft Bonanza. So so much for that. What happened here was when you go to a place like Syracuse and you do five official events and then one political event-you know, you go speak to the Democratic Club...

PRESSMAN: Right.

Sen. SCHUMER: ...you're supposed to pro-rate the amount. Five-sixths is paid for by your official account, and one-sixth by your campaign account.

PRESSMAN: And your staff-your staff returned $20,000...

Sen. SCHUMER: Yeah. So there were a few of these, you know, that we...

PRESSMAN: ...to the federal government.

Sen. SCHUMER: ...didn't pro-rate it properly or we didn't pro-rate it at all, and so we-the minute we heard about it we thoroughly examined all our records, found out the ones we didn't and returned the money.

PRESSMAN: You returned $20,000...

Sen. SCHUMER: Yeah.

PRESSMAN: ...out of-out of the 400 that you...

Sen. SCHUMER: Correct. Correct. Correct.

PRESSMAN: ...the federal government was owed.

Sen. SCHUMER: Yes. Twenty they were owed...

PRESSMAN: Yeah.

Sen. SCHUMER: ...out of 400 that we spent. The 380 was properly spent.

PRESSMAN: On another subject, are-are you satisfied that the Justice Department has conducted a proper investigation into the torture that took place in Iraq?

Sen. SCHUMER: No. The attorney general, Mr. Ashcroft, has had a penchant for secrecy. You know, on these matters I'm a moderate, and sometimes I think you and I might disagree on this. Sometimes I think the left just sort of, you know, goes overboard because it's very difficult to have the balance between security and liberty. But the one thing I'm certain of, Gabe, is what-I love-the Founding Fathers were amazing. And they said in the debate between security and liberty, which was a careful balance that has to change from time to time...

PRESSMAN: Yes.

Sen. SCHUMER: ...that it should be done out in the open between the president and the attorney general, who's an appointee of the president, and the Congress. And Mr. Ashcroft has this penchant for secrecy. And he doesn't debate anything and he doesn't let anything out, and then you get the abuses like we saw at Abu Ghraib. If they had decided to figure out what policy that they should have for interrogation, it would have been a lot better for Ashcroft himself, if he had done it publicly, same thing with all these other things. He had this proposal where they were going to ask your phone installer or, you know, the guy from ConEd to see if you had anything wrong in your house-you know, a book that shouldn't be there or a gun or something. That violates civil liberties from the ACLU to the NRA-they agreed that it does.

If he would have made this public, it never would have happened. If he would have even broached it. But they do all these things secret, then they get egg on their face. Then they have to withdraw. My plea to Mr. Ashcroft-I served with him for two years. I don't always agree with him. But when you do things openly and have an open debate, you'll get a decent policy 'cause the American people are wise on these things.

PRESSMAN: Let's come back after this message.

(Announcements)

PRESSMAN: Senator, here we are again, and I'm wondering before we let you go, Senator Schumer, the assault weapon ban is due-it expires and it...

Sen. SCHUMER: It is. In September. It's terrible to have it expire. It's been in-on the books for five years. It has not infringed on the legitimate rights of hunters and people who need a weapon for self-defense...

PRESSMAN: When does it expire?

Sen. SCHUMER: September. And we are try-we passed it in the Senate.

PRESSMAN: Yeah.

Sen. SCHUMER: But the Senate, you see, is different than the House. We can put an amendment on the floor and force people to vote, and so people would vote for it. The House is refusing to let it come up. They have a more closed system.

PRESSMAN: So there's a chance that assault weapons-it'll be legal to buy them?

Sen. SCHUMER: Uzis, AK-47s will be allowed, and who's going to get them? The criminals. Not the hunter. You don't hunt with an Uzi. You don't-if you're a store owner and you need a sidearm for defense, you don't use an AK-47. They're wildly inaccurate. They were designed by armies to kill a whole lot of people.

PRESSMAN: You're saying that the Senate will go along and pass it again.

Sen. SCHUMER: The Senate has passed it again.

PRESSMAN: They-you-passed a prohibition.

Sen. SCHUMER: Passed the renewal for another five years.

PRESSMAN: Right.

Sen. SCHUMER: Exactly like the old one, but the House has refused, and the president, who says he's for it, the word is his people have sort of whispered to Tom DeLay and the others, 'Don't let it come up 'cause it'll get the NRA mad.'

PRESSMAN: And because of the NRA we're-we're going to have legal assault weapons sales in this country. It's...

Sen. SCHUMER: Who would think?

PRESSMAN: Now the Medal of Honor-a New Yorker who gave his life to save two other Marines, Corporal Jason Dunham...

Sen. SCHUMER: Yes.

PRESSMAN: You're trying hard...

Sen. SCHUMER: Yes.

PRESSMAN: ...to get the-him the Medal of Honor, is that right?

Sen. SCHUMER: He was brave. He gave his life for his country. His bravery was just extraordinary. He lost his own life to save the life of fellow soldiers. He fits all the criteria of the Medal of Honor, and what I've learned because I've been approached by other people who felt that their departed loved ones deserved it in Vietnam or even in World War II...

PRESSMAN: Right.

Sen. SCHUMER: ...if you don't move quickly, it's hard because what the Army-what the armed forces likes is to have the record right there, so they can go into...

PRESSMAN: What happened with this gentleman? What did he do? He...

Sen. SCHUMER: Oh, he was on a mission...

PRESSMAN: Right.

Sen. SCHUMER: ...and you know...

PRESSMAN: In Iraq.

Sen. SCHUMER: ...yeah, on one of those Humvees...

PRESSMAN: Right.

Sen. SCHUMER: ...and his people were at risk and he went and charged and he actually had a grenade or something explode on him as opposed to the others.

PRESSMAN: In order to save the other two people.

Sen. SCHUMER: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

PRESSMAN: He's from western New York?

Sen. SCHUMER: Yeah, from near-in between Buffalo and Rochester.

PRESSMAN: Briefly, the Kerry-Edwards ticket. What about the criticism of Kerry as being too wooden?

Sen. SCHUMER: Well, you know, I was with him Friday morning. He was here. John Edwards is not wooden at all, and what's happening is-and Kerry said this to me. Edwards is loosening him up, and it's great. Kerry is a great thinker. You know, when we'd be in the cloakroom, which is, you know, the little room off the Senate-it's a little like a locker room, Kerry would always want to talk ideas. He's an ideas person, which makes a great president, but maybe not a campaigner in the way that I would be or John Edwards would be. And this-Edwards-picking Edwards on the ticket, who's the opposite-I like to say Kerry's sort of a brain-to-brain politician, and Edwards a gut-to-gut politician. Kerry's getting a little more gut-to-gut.

PRESSMAN: Humanistic ticket-ticket that believes in values, democracy and all of that. They push the press around-at least me-at that meeting on Friday. They wouldn't allow us to go outside of what they called the pen.

Sen. SCHUMER: Yeah. These-sometimes these Secret Service guys get a little authoritarian.

PRESSMAN: No, it wasn't Secret Service. These were the volunteers.

Sen. SCHUMER: Really? Oh, they get-they get sort of taken with their role, but my view-they should let you guys interview the audience. That's part of democracy. That's First Amendment.

PRESSMAN: Thank you, Senator Schumer, for joining us and for succumbing to my propaganda.