MSNBC "The Ed Show" -Transcript

Interview

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SEN. RON WYDEN (D), OREGON: Thank you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: All right.

Well, you"re from Oregon. You know how to shovel out. You know what that"s all about.

All right, Senator. Let"s talk about Mr. Brennan. Should he go? Has he done something seriously egregious and incompetent that he needs to be removed from his position?

WYDEN: I certainly don"t think so. And it seems to me, Ed, he is a policy adviser. And what this debate ought to be all about are policies that are going to protect the American people in a dangerous time rather than politics.

That"s what I"m interested in. And I"m particularly interested in making sure that these terrorists don"t get propaganda points.

For example, in a number of instances they would like to be tried in military tribunals. They want this special status. They want to be called soldiers at war.

We ought to make sure they don"t get that special status. Let"s make sure they"re terrorists. Let"s try them in a place where we"re going to make sure the American people are protected.

And I"m glad that people like Moussaoui and Yusuf and Richard Reid, I"m glad they are never going to see the light of day. They are in that maximum security facility. They aren"t getting out today, tomorrow, or ever.

SCHULTZ: This is all about Miranda rights, isn"t it, Senator? And this is all about whether we are just too soft on people who want to hit this country.

Take us through the weeds. What should we do? Should we Mirandize these folks that try to hit this country? Where do you stand on that?

WYDEN: I think you can certainly debate whether there ought to be a better-defined process for dealing with a terrorist who is captured in our country. But what I believe I ought to be doing as a member of the Intelligence Committee is making sure that our military officials, our intelligence officials and our law enforcement officials have the tools and the flexibility to make these decisions where timing can be critical.

I"m not going to, in effect, second-guess them. I think we"ve got the best in those fields. I want them to have the tools and the flexibility to protect our people.

SCHULTZ: OK.

And Senator Wyden, do you think that it was a courtesy call to the leadership on both sides of the aisle on Christmas night? And when Mr. Brennan said the FBI has him in custody, should the officials that he was speaking to, the elected officials, have known that Miranda rights were going to be read?

WYDEN: I think it"s obvious what he was trying to do was share all of the information that he had. And that"s what I think the relationship between the executive branch and the members of Congress ought to be. So, what you"re trying to do is offer up information, and everything that I have been able to pick up on this is what he did was professional.

SCHULTZ: OK.

So, in your opinion, do the Republicans have a legitimate gripe here, or are they just still throwing the same old stuff at us, like, hey, if you"re not torturing them, you"re not getting the job done?

WYDEN: I think what we ought to be doing in the intelligence arena is working together against al Qaeda. Essentially, that"s what they want.

They think it"s great when you can have these debates about politics, and Democrats and Republicans slugging each other up on Capitol Hill. Let"s team up to make sure we get sensible policies.

I think, for example, there shouldn"t be a hard and fast rule whether you try people in civilian court or in military tribunals. There is a good argument for trying a number of cases in military tribunals, especially if you capture a terrorist in the field of combat. But there shouldn"t be a hard and fast rule. Let"s make sure that military officials, intelligence officials, law enforcement officials have some flexibility.

SCHULTZ: Senator Wyden, good to have you with us tonight. Thanks so much.

WYDEN: Thank you.

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