MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW and thanks for watching tonight. The fate of the health care bill now rests on this special election tomorrow in Massachusetts. The bill is in jeopardy if Republican Scott Brown wins. So Democrats in Congress are trying to figure out how to get it through without 60 Senate votes. One possibility is to push the Senate version of the bill through the House as is. I"m not a big fan of the Senate health care bill. It can be a lot better. But the preexisting condition part of a legislation is going to help millions of Americans. Try to focus on that.

So all you folks in Massachusetts, think about that before you go to the polls tomorrow. Do you want to have to go tell your neighbor that they can"t have health insurance because you really wanted to have Scott Brown in the United States Senate? For more on the Democrats" next move on health care, let me bring in Congressman Joe Courtney of Connecticut.

There are a number of--I would say--conservatives Democrats who are concerned about this, but also liberal Democrats in the House who are concerned about just the pushing through of the legislation. Joe, thanks for joining us tonight. How much of a problem would it be, in your opinion?

REP. JOE COURTNEY (D), CONNECTICUT: Well, as you and I have discussed many times over the last few weeks, there are real issues with the Senate bill. The excise tax, which is the primary financing mechanism in the Senate, is something that finally was getting some positive attention, partly because of your show, because of the negative impact it would have on a lot of working families and middle class families. The Senate bill does not go far enough to close the donut hole.

The purchasing exchange in the House bill, which would be a national purchasing exchange and allow I think much greater pooling and better opportunity for affordable health insurance--there"s a lot of issues there that separate the two.

SCHULTZ: But congressman, the gist of all of this is that the president, his agenda for 2010 could be at stake. He could come over to you guys again and say, look, I"ve got to have this. Are you willing to give it up?

COURTNEY: Well, there"s a couple of ways that this could be approached. One of them would be to use the budget reconciliation process, the 51-vote rule, for cleanup, as sort of a follow up to passage of a Senate bill. To be honest with you, that"s going to be a very hard sell for everybody. And it"s not just a progressive caucus issue. It really would require a lot of trust that there would be a follow-on to incorporate some of these changes.

We don"t even want to think about that. Your audience in Massachusetts should just keep pounding the phones. We"ve got to make this thing work tomorrow.

SCHULTZ: Well, basically, congressman, what you"re saying to the folks in Massachusetts tonight, they"ve got to deliver the mail; and if they don"t do it, health care reform in this country is in serious jeopardy and so is President Obama"s agenda, right?

COURTNEY: The stakes are huge. And you stated it perfectly. And the best way to make sure that we get a fair and balanced--to use a terrible phrase--compromise between the House and Senate bill is to make sure that we have 60 votes in the Senate and we have a Democrat from Massachusetts.

SCHULTZ: Well, here"s how it"s going to shake down if Brown wins the Senate race and the president of the United States is sitting there in the balance, the Democrats in the house are going to have to take a very politically courageous position, and stand up and say, Mr. President, we"re with you. We"re going to get something. Whether it just be a pre-existing condition and 30 million people who are going to get covered, wouldn"t that be enough?

I mean, in the totality of it all--and I guess I"m going to ask the provocative question--do you think the conservatives would have done this to George W. Bush? Tom Delay would have twisted a lot of arms on his side to make sure that nobody screws this thing up. Because of this situation in Massachusetts right now, it seems to me that it"s very clear, the Democrats are put in a corner, in an untenable position, to say hey, we got to take what we can get on this deal, we didn"t know that it was going to screw up like this in Massachusetts. What about all of that?

COURTNEY: Well, again, there"s obviously going to have to be consideration of a plan B after tomorrow if it goes the wrong way. I"ve been involved in public life for years. Health care access and quality have been my passion. It"s what really made me run for office. So the end game here, the big picture end game, which you described very powerfully, Ed, is really something that many of us don"t want to let slip through our fingers for another generation, which is what we saw happen in Clinton-care collapsed.

Again, plan A is still to try and hold on to that seat in Massachusetts. And plan B is to try and figure out whether there"s either an expedited process to reconcile the two bills with the good changes that have gotten a lot of momentum over the last week or so, or whether or not there is a follow on reconciliation process that can, again, incorporate the intelligence discussions happening over the last two weeks.

SCHULTZ: Congressman, great to have you on. Way to fight for the people.

COURTNEY: Thanks, Ed.

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