MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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SCHULTZ: For more, let me bring in Congressman Joe Courtney of Connecticut, who has got 190 congressional signatures, and sending this to the speaker of the House, opposing any kind of tax on health care benefits. Joe, good to have you on tonight.

REP. JOE COURTNEY (D), CONNECTICUT: Great to be here, Ed.

SCHULTZ: This is the battle down the stretch, is it not?

COURTNEY: It is. And Richard Trumka was doing God"s work today, putting a public spotlight on the issue, and then going to the White House and reminding the White House that this was a critical issue in 2008. John McCain was the one who came out and supported taxing health benefits and the Obama campaign and Democrats vociferously opposed it. It really demonstrated to the middle class that we"re on their side.

SCHULTZ: What do you make to the president and the shift on this? There is clearly a flip flop on this by President Obama if he"s going to go with taxing benefits. And it"s going to hit the middle class families. Your thoughts on that. What do you make of Obama doing--the president doing this?

COURTNEY: There"s no question that within the Senate, there"s a dynamic there that is very challenging. And to be charitable, that maybe that"s the logic, in terms of getting a bill through that chamber first. But there"s no question that the House bill, which has no tax on health benefits, is on the side of the American people. Every poll shows that. And certainly you know what I think labor is out there talking about right now, that it will be tens of millions of Americans, not just union families, but middle class families that will be impacted by this.

SCHULTZ: Congress, he put it in historical perspective today in his speech at the National Press Club. And Mr. Trumka, the head of the AFL-CIO, said this--he referred back in 1994. He said, "we swallowed our disappointment and worked to preserve a Democratic majority in 1994 because we knew that the alternative--we knew what the alternative was. But there was no way to dissuade enough working Americans to go to the polls when they couldn"t tell the difference between the two parties. Politicians who think that working people have it too good, too much health care, too much Social Security and Medicare, too much power on the job, are inviting a repeat of 1994."

Now if this doesn"t signal a warning--and you consider how many boots are on the ground labor did, how much social networking they did, and how much money they raised for Democratic candidates--if this isn"t a shot over the bow officially, at the National Press Club--I thought this was the meat of the speech today. This is saying, hey, fellas, Democrats, we"re not going to be there in 2010. We"re walking right down the road for a repeat of "94. What"s your response to this?

COURTNEY: I think he"s right that there"s a lot riding on how we strike a balance in the conference process. And if you create a health care plan where middle class families feel like they are going backwards rather than forwards, that"s a recipe for trouble. We saw it when the Medicare bill was passed in 1988, and it was repealed within a year for the same reason. And the Clinton health care plan I think really failed for that same reason.

SCHULTZ: And finally, congressman, I"m told that they are working on a compromise, that they would tax the top two percent income tax, and then they would not go after taxing the health care benefits as much as they thought they would. Would that fly with you?

COURTNEY: I mean, really, this is an issue that I"ve worked on very hard over the last two or three years. I would really like to look at any plans very closely. We"ve got to make sure that middle class families--

SCHULTZ: You"re working on a compromise? You"d take a compromise on that? The unions are not going to take a compromise on this. I mean, they told the president today, this is where--this is where it"s at. And you"re opening the door a little bit.

COURTNEY: Well, my position was there before, frankly, even a lot of labor was, back in October on this issue, and put a big red flag up for the Speaker. And to her credit, we passed a bill with no tax on health benefits. That"s still my position.

Look it, Ed, I"m certainly someone who is willing to look at anything that they are working on. At the end of the day, the test has to be, does it protect the middle class.

SCHULTZ: Congressman, good to have you with us tonight. Well, if it goes through, it"s going to tax the middle class. That is for sure. Good to have you with us.

COURTNEY: OK.

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