NBC "Meet The Press" - Transcript
Interview
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MR. TOM BROKAW: Joining us now, let's turn to two men whose job it is to count the votes in their respective chambers--the Democratic House whip, Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina; the Democratic Senate whip, Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois.
Welcome both. They're back in their respective states. You just heard Mr. Axelrod say that he is confident, Congressman Clyburn, that the bill will be passed. As of this morning, do you have the votes that you need?
REP. CLYBURN: No, we don't have them as of this morning. But we've been working this thing all weekend, we'll be working it going into the week. I am also very confident that we'll get this done. I have been talking to members for a long time on this, and they have the will to do it.
They've been looking to us to create a way to do it. I think we have gotten to a place where we do have the way to do it, and I think the members are going to, to vote for this.
MR. BROKAW: What is the way that they can get it done? Because I'm hearing from a number of people on Capitol Hill and other political analysts that members of the House are very anxious about voting for the Senate bill and then having that read back to them in the fall by their Republican opponents who would then ignore whatever happens in reconciliation?
REP. CLYBURN: Well, I hear a lot of that, and there is this historic distrust that exists between the two bodies. But I believe sincerely that we have been working together, the House and Senate leaders, along with the White House. I think we have gotten a comfort level with each
other. I think that we can go to our members and say to them with assurances that the Senate wants to fix this as well as we do. They know back in the--their states that people need this reform. We need to get rid of discrimination because of pre-existing conditions. We need to get rid of recisions when people get catastrophic illnesses. We need to say
to young people, "You can stay on your parents' insurance policies until you finished law school or medical school," what have you. These things we have got to do, and the senators know that. And we cannot do all of that without this bill.
MR. BROKAW: Senator Durbin, a lot of members of the House are looking to the Senate, and they're looking with some skepticism about what you'll do to the bill once it gets back into your chamber. Let me share with you now what New York Congressman Anthony Weiner had to say about all that. "Members of the House are being asked to trust an untrustworthy body.
... I think there are a lot of skeptical members about whether the Senate, [the Senate] can deliver on the things that they say that they are going to." Can you give an ironclad guarantee this morning to Congressman Weiner and other members of the House that the Senate will play by the rules and keep intact the bill that is passed in the House?
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Tom, when I served in the House, we used to say in the House Democratic Caucus, "The Republicans are our opponents, but the Senate is the enemy." So I can understand the built-in skepticism and lack of trust. But I'll tell you this, we're in the process of actually contacting every single Democratic senator. When Nancy Pelosi goes
before her House Democratic Caucus, it will be with the solid assurance that when reconciliation comes over to the Senate side, we're going to pass it.
MR. BROKAW: When you go among your constituents in Illinois, Senator, do they have any idea what's in the 2,700 pages of this health bill?
SEN. DURBIN: Well, some do. But a lady called me--I was in Springfield yesterday at the office, and a woman called on a Saturday from Nokomis, Illinois, and she said, "I want you to be against this bill, Senator. It, it's just, it's government health insurance." And then she went on to explain that her mother, her 85-year-old mother, just went to a great local hospital for a surgery under Medicare. And I explained to her this is a government health insurance plan. And I said, are you worried about insurance rates going up? And she said, "Well, yes I am." And I said, "That's what we're trying to do--deal with, to make sure that small businesses can afford health insurance, that they have the same options that members of Congress have to choose from different health insurance companies, the best choice, real competition. We want to start bringing costs down for everybody. And we want to give people a fighting chance
against insurance companies that turn them down because of pre-existing conditions and caps on the amounts that they pay." So I'm not sure I'll ever win her over, but I think we are addressing a very serious problem. The Republicans have not helped us. They want to stop; they want to give up. But we're not giving up on the American people. This is an important battle, and the president's right, we've got to win it for families and small businesses all across America.
MR. BROKAW: When the Senate bill is reported out of the Senate at some point, if it is, will it have stripped out of it the so-called "Cornhusker Amendment," the special consideration to Senator Ben Nelson? Or what is called the "Louisiana Purchase," the special consideration for
Louisiana?
SEN. DURBIN: Well, what Senator Nelson said is he wanted good treatment for Nebraska, but he hoped every state would get it. And the reconciliation bill will extend the Nebraska treatment to every state in the union. As far as the situation in Louisiana, let me tell you, Mary Landrieu fought for that because she has a situation that comes out of Hurricane Katrina that's one of the worst in the nation where every county has been declared an emergency disaster area. If that happens at her state or in any other state, we ought to step up and help them. Mary Landrieu's right to fight for Louisiana. She's doing the right thing. And we ought to offer that kind of assistance to any state that deals with that kind of emergency.
MR. BROKAW: Congressman Clyburn, as you know, there is another issue that could be a sticking point, and that is the question about what kind of coverage people who want to have an abortion would be able to get. Congressman Stupak of Michigan, a conservative Democrat, has been leading the fight to restrict coverage for abortion, and he told the National
Review Online this past weekend, "What are Democratic leaders saying? `If you pass the Stupak amendment, more children will be born, and therefore it will cost us millions more. That's one of the arguments I've been hearing,' [Stupak] says. `Money is their hang-up. Is this how we now value life in America? If money is the issue, come on, we can find room in the budget. This is a life that we are talking about.'" He later amended his remarks to say it was not Democratic leaders, but members of the Democratic majority in the House of Representatives that he was referring to. Are you going to cede to Congressman Stupak and
keep some restrictions on abortion coverage?
REP. CLYBURN: I think that Congressman Stupak, who is one of my best friends in the Congress--we were classmates and we spend a lot of time together--I think he is operating in earnest when he says that he wants to see us restrict federal funds for abortion. I believe we have done that. I think that more people that look at this, we have just had the Catholic hospitals to endorse this bill. I don't think they would be doing that if they were not comfortable with this language. We have seen legal experts last week say they have scrubbed it, and they really believe that what the Senate has done is in keeping with the Hyde Amendment that we've been operating under for years now. There will be no federal funds for abortion. And I think that most people that look at this have now come to that conclusion. And I do believe that Congressman Stupak will end up voting for this bill because I think he's going to be very comfortable with it in the coming days.
MR. BROKAW: Congressman Clyburn and Senator Durbin, it's not just Republicans who've been critical of the president. The 43-member Congressional Black Caucus is fighting through one of the most difficult periods in its 39 history--39-year history, according to its members. The House Judiciary Committee chairman, John Conyers, told Politico that White House officials are "not listening" to black lawmakers. Representative Alcee Hastings of Florida: "There's not enough attention to poor people." Representative Jesse Jackson Jr. said: "While I respect President Obama, delivering victories for his political future should be the least of our worries on Capitol Hill." They're talking mostly about jobs and aid for poor people.
Can you assure the Congressional Black Congress--Caucus and also the American people, that by July of this year the American economy will begin to create more jobs than it begins to lose? Congressman Clyburn:
REP. CLYBURN: I don't know if I can offer that assurance as I can tell you this, I'm very comfortable that they will. For the last two report periods, we have remained stable at 9.7 percent. We have just passed a jobs bill in the House, and we are going to pass another one in the House and the Senate in the coming days. I do feel that we are on course to get this economy moving again. I had a meeting, along with the Congressional Black Caucus, with the president three, four days ago. It was a very cordial meeting, one of the most productive meetings I've ever had at the White House. I do believe that we're all on the same page
when it comes to providing health care and creating jobs in this economy. And so I'm very comfortable with the relationship that the president has with the Congressional Black Caucus, and I think we are going to be moving forward together.
MR. BROKAW: And, Senator Durbin, can you make that assurance to the people of Illinois that there will begin to be job creation by late spring, early July?
SEN. DURBIN: This is what I can tell them: If the Republican senators will stop the filibusters, stop the obstruction, come across the aisle and help us, we can pass bills that will really create jobs in America and do it quickly. We want to help small businesses with tax credits to
hire unemployed people. We want to move into clean energy technology, which is going to create jobs across America. The only way we get it done in the Senate is if some senators on the Republican side have the courage to step up and join us. You talked about Scott Brown earlier. One of his first votes was to come across the aisle and help us move a jobs bill. Senator Snowe, Senator Collins, several of these senators have shown extraordinary courage. We need more of them. With that bipartisan cooperation, we can start to get this economy moving forward. Without it, we're going to be tangled up in filibusters and obstructions and obstacles. That isn't going to create a job in America.
MR. BROKAW: Congressman Clyburn, Senator Durbin, thanks very much for being with us this morning. We'll be watching very carefully in the course of the next several weeks for this vote on healthcare reform.
Up next, a Republican view...
REP. CLYBURN: Thank you so much for having us.
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