MSNBC "Countdown With Keith Olbermann" - Transcript

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

OLBERMANN: And there, perhaps, the true tragedy of Joe Lieberman, how should it be taken if not personally? What is someone"s health if the health of a loved one if not profoundly personal?

Majority Leader Reid"s office tonight, by the way, explaining that exchange as a time management dispute and not some form of retribution. It said Senator Reid had instructed presiding senators hold all members to their allotted time to speak in an effort to get a bill passed by Christmas.

A gentleman now is taking time out from the process to join us, Senator Bernie Sanders, the independent of Vermont.

Much thanks for doing so tonight, sir.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Good to be with you, Keith.

OLBERMANN: Let me cut to the chase. With no changes in the bill, the bill existing exactly as you know it right now--would you vote for the Senate health care reform bill?

SANDERS: Well, I"m not sure. Right now, what I am trying desperately to do is to make this bill a better bill. So, I"ll tell you in a few days if I"ve been successful.

Clearly, when people say that this bill has many serious flaws in it, they"re right. I worry very much about a massive bailout of the insurance companies, of the drug companies, of escalating prices. And that is the reality that we got to deal with.

On the other hand, people cannot forget that in the real world, when so many of our people are hurting, when we got 46 million people uninsured, this legislation provides health care to 30 million people. It does away with the odious practice of providing--of making sure that people get health care despite the kind of illnesses they may have had. It goes a long way towards the disease prevention.

So, what you got is a bill which is by no means the kind of bill that I feel very good about. But it does a number of good things.

As you may know, yesterday, Keith, I was on the floor of the Senate doing what I think is the right thing in presenting legislation--which is the real solution. And that is a Medicare for all, single-payer program, which is the only way, in my view, that this country will ever have universal, comprehensive, cost effective health care.

Unfortunately, among other things, we ran into Republican obstructionism on that effort as well.

OLBERMANN: Short of that effort, you mentioned attempts to change this bill. Are you working through other amendments? Do you have anything that we should know about in terms of you want to modify and how you might do it?

SANDERS: Well, right now--well, let me just tell you--right now, we"re working with the White House, we"re working with the Democratic leadership to make this bill significantly better, so that it helps more people and we do everything that we can to try to control the absolutely outrageous increase in health care costs in this country, which is a danger not only to individuals and small businesses, but to the government as well.

OLBERMANN: Can you expand, Senator, on something you told reporters yesterday. The quote was, "Reconciliation is absolutely an appropriate way -- or route, rather, to go."

SANDERS: Well, Keith, let"s be clear. What should have been understood and what the dynamic of this is, is you have 60 people in the Democratic Caucus. And a number of them, in my view, have never been serious about strong health care reform. And, in fact, from the very beginning, that should have been understood and we say, "You know what? We don"t have 60 votes."

We"re going to have 51 votes to do something that is significant, maybe not as broad, maybe not as comprehensive. But there is a heck of a lot that you can do with 51 votes so that we don"t have to compromise every other day and, I think, look kind of foolish before the American people. I think that was an understanding that should have occurred at the very beginning of this process.

The truth is: we don"t have 60 votes for strong health care reform which takes on the insurance companies, which takes on the drug companies. We should have known that from the beginning.

OLBERMANN: Is it too late to go to reconciliation now?

SANDERS: I can--I can certainly live with that option. Whether or not it is feasible, it"s a very complicated process. You"re going to need to get key chairman who are not enthusiastic about going that route.

OLBERMANN: You"ve known and worked with Governor Dean a long time in many different contexts. How do you feel about the effort to get this current bill passed in part by discrediting things he said in the last couple of days?

SANDERS: Oh, like, you know, I"ve known Howard Dean for many, many years. I think a lot of his criticism of this bill is constructive. And I think he makes good points.

On the other hand, as a United States senator, a member of Congress, I would rather deal with the reality, though. A lot of people who are hurting out there, there are a lot of people who need health insurance. And that has got to be taken into consideration.

We"ve got to all deal with the reality that if this bill goes down, what does it mean politically in this country? When is the next time a legislation is going to come up which will increase health care reform for 30 million people, provide insurance, deal with some of the major abuses in terms of pre-existing conditions, deal with disease prevention?

So, those are the kind of very difficult issues. You know, is this a good bill? It is not a good bill. But we"re going to try to make it as good as we possibly can.

OLBERMANN: Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont, greatly illuminating as always--and we are greatly appreciative of your time, as always, sir.

SANDERS: Thank you, Keith.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source