MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript
Interview
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This news breaking right now, not at all yet clear, but joining us now to help shed some light on what"s really happening is independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Senator Sanders is a member of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee.
Senator Sanders, thanks for joining us tonight on such short notice.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Good to be with you, Rachel.
MADDOW: Help me understand what Senator Reid was trying to communicate tonight. Is the public option is still alive?
SANDERS: I wish I could. I think, the truth, CBO was analyzing the numbers on this. I don"t think anyone is very clear as to really what is in this package.
But let me--let me be very clear--what I have said repeatedly is we are starting with a bill that is not a particularly strong bill, it does a lot of good things, but at the end of the day, if we are serious about comprehensive universal health care, the only approach is a Medicare for all, single-payer bill. This is certainly not that.
I have also said that it is not my intention to be voting for legislation which doesn"t have some strong containment components and a public option is one way that you keep the private insurance companies honest.
Now, what"s going on right now is 10 senators, five more progressive members and five more conservative members have been kind of locked in a room, working on some agreement.
What I think I can say, one of the ideas that is being looked at as you have just indicated, which is not insignificant, is saying to people who are over 55 years of age--and many of those people have financial problems, and the older you get, the more illness you have--what this plan may be saying to those folks is you can opt-in to Medicare on a premium-based way. You"re going to have to pay a premium, but you will be eligible for subsidies, depending on your income. That is not insignificant.
Furthermore, I think that they are looking at various state options, giving states more flexibility as to how they can provide cost effective health care to all of their people.
So, what you"re looking at, Rachel, it is not fair, I think--I think it"s not fair to simply say they are abandoning the public option. What you"re looking at is tradeoffs which, in fact, at the end of the day, may be stronger than the very weak public options that both the House and Senate have already passed.
MADDOW: Let me ask you just clarifying question though about these tradeoffs. I absolutely hear you in terms of the progressive nature of expanding Medicare to be available to a larger group of people. Medicare after all is a single-payer system. And it is the sort of thing that progressives and people very concerned about cost containment have talked about doing for health reform.
I understand why something like that may be a boon to progressives who would be asked to be trading away something like the public option, at least ideologically makes a lot of sense. I don"t understand how a government-managed, essentially, menu of private insurance options is a progressive choice. Why that would be something that progressives would be satisfied with and might even give up the public option in return for?
SANDERS: Well, you"re right.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: The problem is, what we are looking at is a very conservative institution, the Republicans have decided that despite the disintegration of our health care system, they"re more interested in representing the private insurance companies than the American people. They"re out of the picture. So, you"re down to 60 people, including some pretty conservative people.
So, I think what"s going on in that room is trying to do the best that they can do within that context. The other part of the tradeoff, by the way, may also be an expansion of Medicaid. And if you add to Medicaid the development of many new community health centers, you will be providing a lot more health care access to lower income people. If you do an opt-in for people 55 years of age through Medicare, you"re also providing a significant benefit.
So, the details, it"s difficult for me to give you an explanation because nobody really has the final word on what"s going on. But what you"re looking at again is a tradeoff, expanding Medicaid, opening up Medicare to millions of more people, and weakening the so-called public option.
MADDOW: Independent senator, Bernie Sanders of Vermont, thank you forhelping us trying to figure this out tonight as this is breaking right now really appreciate it, sir.
SANDERS: You"re welcome. Take care.
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