MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

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Joining me now is Independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

Senator, good to have you with us tonight.

I want you to...

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Good to be with you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: You bet. Thank you, sir.

I want you to clarify, not that you haven‘t, but just to make sure we‘re on the same page, would you filibuster this bill if it did not have a public option?

SANDERS: I would be very, very reluctant to go forward, Ed, with a program, with a policy that provides hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies to the insurance companies without a public option, without strong cost containment. You‘re just talking about a bailout for the private insurance companies, and that‘s something I can‘t support.

SCHULTZ: Do you think that there are other Democratic senators that would stand with you on this?

SANDERS: Yes, I do. And I think what we have--you‘ve got a political problem and you‘ve got a public policy problem.

The political problem, Ed, is that the vast majority of the American people want to have a choice between a Medicare-type public plan and a private plan. And second of all, with health care costs soaring, there‘s got to be a mechanism in place to control what private insurance companies want to do, which is to raise rates every single day. And without a strong public option, I don‘t know how you do that.

SCHULTZ: All right.

SANDERS: But as you indicated--yes--what you‘ve got is a couple of senators who, despite what the president wants, despite what the American people want, despite what the House wants, despite what a majority of the senators want, they‘re saying no. So we‘re going to need, I think, a Plan B here.

SCHULTZ: What would Plan B be if Harry Reid can‘t get some of these conservative Democrats on board? What do you suggest being Plan B?

SANDERS: Well, rather than caving in to just a few of the more conservative Democrats, a Plan B would say, OK, look, we don‘t have the 60 votes. A, either we go through reconciliation or, B, let‘s see what we can agree on.

What can you agree on? Insurance reform. Nobody I know thinks it‘s appropriate for insurance companies to deny care for a pre-existing condition or throwing people off of health care because they were sick in the previous year.

What we can do is take on the drug companies. We could start negotiating--and the House bill has this--negotiate prices with the drug companies and fill that so-called doughnut hole in Medicare Part D.

Number three, what we can do is greatly expand Medicaid and strengthen Medicaid. We can add 15 million more people to the health insurance rolls if we do that.

We can go forward in terms of primary health care and community health centers. Sixty million people in this country do not have access to a doctor or dentist or mental health counseling or low-cost prescription drugs.

We could do all of those things. That‘s pretty good. Maybe we could get 60 votes on that without giving huge subsidies to private insurance companies.

SCHULTZ: And what do you think the White House play should be at this point with all the tough talking coming from Joe Lieberman and also Blanche Lincoln and Ben Nelson and Mary Landrieu? What would you expect them to do?

It would seem to me that they would have to come to the poker game pretty soon now. The window of opportunity is starting to close here pretty fast.

SANDERS: They‘ve got to pony up to the table immediately, and they have to make it clear that either those guys--those more conservatives Democrats--are going to not join a Republican filibuster, or you come up with a Plan B so that the president can, in fact, say, look, we don‘t--we are being boycotted, in essence, by the Republicans. Let‘s not forget that.

You have on the Bush--the complete deterioration of health care. They did nothing. And they are keeping that trend going now by playing an obstructionist role.

So we don‘t have any Republican support. And I think what the president has got to do, either you get 60 votes to say no to Republican filibusters, or we come together on a scaled-down but still strong health care program.

SCHULTZ: Senator, happy Thanksgiving to you. And thanks for joining us. I admire your fight in all of this, and I appreciate you willing to stand out in the Vermont weather tonight to talk to us about this crucial issue.

SANDERS: Thank you very much.

SCHULTZ: Thanks so much, Bernie. I appreciate it.

SANDERS: OK.

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