MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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SCHULTZ: Well, needless to say, there is a confrontation brewing. A dozen Conservative Democrats are threatening to deep six president Obama‘s top priority even though the president has said he doesn‘t want the language in the bill.

Joining me now is Congresswoman Maxine Waters. She is also the Chief Deputy Whip and is going to have a big say in all of this.

Congresswoman, those are fighting words, are they not?

REP. MAXINE WATERS (D), CALIFORNIA: They certainly are. And, you

know, first of all, we‘ve got to work very hard, and Barbara Boxer‘s

leading that effort with the other women in the Senate, saying to Senator

Reid that we cannot have matching Stupak language in the Senate bill, that,

you know -

We can all live with the Hyde language. We have lived with that for years. That‘s that language that simply says you can‘t spend government money for abortions unless it‘s in the case of rape, incest, or one - one other issue. So I - we can live with that language, but we can‘t go beyond that.

SCHULTZ: OK. And - and you believe that the Stupak amendment becomes much more restrictive of women‘s rights and goes back and really tries to undermine Roe v Wade?

WATERS: Oh, it certainly does. As a matter of fact, this amendment not only says that if you receive government subsidies in any way that you cannot purchase, you know, abortion services on the exchange, it basically says for people who can‘t even afford to pay, the only way they‘re going to be able to get it is through a supplemental policy, and we just know that these insurance companies are not going to offer two different plans, and so it just wouldn‘t be available.

SCHULTZ: Congresswoman Maxine Waters with us.

Do you think Bart Stupak is bluffing? Do you think he has the votes and do you think those Conservative Democrats would actually blow up health care reform over this issue?

WATERS: I certainly hope not. I‘m told that he said he was surprised that he got as far as he did with his amendment in the House after he had gained the support to get it into a House bill. So I‘m thinking that, you know, he really does not believe that they are going to kill this health care bill. I mean, this is too big, it‘s too important to Democrats, and so I‘m just hopeful that he certainly will not pursue that.

SCHULTZ: But Congresswoman, why did the Stupak amendment stay in? I mean, why did Speaker Pelosi allow it to come out of the House and the Democratic Caucus allow it to come out of the House with that kind of language?

I mean, you - you‘re just banking on the Senate taking care of things, correct?

WATERS: Well, no. It‘s not quite that. It‘s - she was working to pass health care reform out of the House.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

WATERS: They basically said to her that if you put this bill on the Floor without our amendment, we‘re not going to vote for it. You can‘t pass it out of this House. And so she allowed it to come up and it got even more votes than she expected it to get.

SCHULTZ: Do you think this can get done before the first of the year?

WATERS: I don‘t know, but I certainly know it‘s not going to meet the deadlines that had been talked about, you know? Reid at one time had said by Thanksgiving, some are saying by the end of the year. It may go much further than that.

SCHULTZ: And - and Congresswoman, let me ask you this very directly. Let‘s say that the Stupak amendment gets some teeth over on the Senate side. You got Orrin Hatch there. He‘s going to basically try to put the same language in there.

Would this be a - a break it off point for many Democrats, maybe to a third party? I mean, if - if - if this issue is going to stop Barack Obama‘s number one domestic agenda after getting a mandate from the people and winning nine bush states, what else does it take for the Progressives to get their message a point? Wouldn‘t this be a breaking off point and set a foundation for a third party?

What do you think?

WATERS: Well, there are several things going on here. One is Nancy Pelosi has said to a number of the women in the House that that Stupak language would never make it out of conference, so she‘s committed to making sure that that language is not in the conference committee. Now, she appoints the conferees, so I‘m - I‘m banking on that.

But, to be sure, there‘s also a petition circulating by women in the House who are declaring that they will not vote for a bill that has the Stupak language in it. So this is - I mean, this is a high-stakes game we‘re playing here.

SCHULTZ: There‘s no doubt about it.

WATERS: A lot of - I mean, and so you have Stupak who‘s saying that this bill, they‘ll kill the bill before they allow it to pass without their language and you have women saying that they - Democratic women - that they will not vote for a bill with the language in it.

So we have got a lot to play out here. We‘re all anxious to see what‘s going to come out on the Senate side. We understand that Reid has already called a Democratic caucus to tell them how the bill has been scored.

SCHULTZ: OK. And - and Congresswoman, I got to stop you there. We‘re going to go to Harry Reid right now, coming out of the Senate meeting.

WATERS: OK.

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