MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

Interview

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Joining us now is Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota.

Senator, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), MINNESOTA: Well, thank you. That was such a nice introduction, so optimistic.

(LAUGHTER)

MADDOW: Well, that‘s me.

KLOBUCHAR: I think I should give those--maybe I will promise to give them notes. Please remember to call Rachel tomorrow.

MADDOW: I know. That‘s just me having my feelings hurt about them not calling us back.

KLOBUCHAR: OK.

MADDOW: But on the--on the policy matter, I am willing to put a dark cloud in any silver lining here, because I can‘t see a way this passes if you need 60 votes all the way along.

KLOBUCHAR: Well, I just disagree. I mean, first of all, remember about a year ago, you and I did this big football analogy with McCain and Obama on Halloween. And this is where I see it. We are at the 40 yard line, Rachel. We are close to the goal line, right?

A field goal isn‘t good enough. We need real comprehensive health care. And that‘s why we are starting the game now.

And I believe, once we get to allow that debate to start, which is Saturday night at 8:00 p.m., the vote is forecast. I see no reason why someone is suddenly going to decide not to at least allow the debate to continue on Saturday night. Then we start moving down the field to that goal line. And, in the end, Rachel, if a player gets injured on the field, they will have health care.

So, I am very positive about moving forward. I think everyone in the Senate is going to want to see some changes to the bill. I don‘t think that should surprise you. We represent different states.

I, for one, am happy that there has been some significant cost reform in this bill, working toward making health care more affordable for the people of this country. It offers stability, despite some of the things you were saying at the beginning.

This--I mean, think about this. Finally, people in America, if your kid gets sick, you‘re not going to be thrown off your health care coverage. If you‘ve got a kid that you want to keep on your health care coverage when they‘re in college, until they‘re 26 years old, they can stay on your own family‘s health care coverage. You have all kinds of prevention provisions in there that really bring us to looking at health and not just health care and health insurance down the road.

So, I think the $127 billion saving on the deficit--you might say that‘s a conservadem issue, I think it should be an issue for everyone in this country; that we finally have a bill, over 20 years, that will save $650 billion. We have a problem with debt in this country, that we have been able to put together a health care bill that brings us closer to bringing down the cost for health care, that will allow American companies to compete with companies in other countries, that allow small businesses who pay 20 percent more for their health care to finally be able to get some leverage so they can less expensive health care. That‘s what this bill is about.

MADDOW: I didn‘t mean to imply that the effect on the deficit was only a conservative Democrat issue. What I meant was that‘s one of the things that they‘ve demanded in order to say that they will vote for the bill. And they got it. They really got it.

But that hasn‘t actually translated into them actually promising to vote for it. And that‘s why I think I‘m skeptical about the 60.

KLOBUCHAR: Well, you--you know, you have seen this before. People will say, both parties, firmly declare they‘re against something, and then something changed that makes it easier to explain at home, an issue that‘s important to them, whether it‘s cost, whether it‘s stability, whether it‘s making sure Medicare is preserved, which this bill does. In fact, it allows seniors to have less expensive prescription drugs when they reach that donor hall. Those are things that people have been focusing on the last four or five months.

And I think it‘s no surprise that people aren‘t immediately going to say, "I support every provision in this bill."

But the difference is--compared to, say, back in August--you now have a united party in the Senate that is basically saying, "We want to move ahead with this bill. We may not agree with every single thing but we are ready to start debating it, we are ready to start voting on it," and that there is consensus on some basic issues, to make health care more affordable, to make health care more stable, to keep high quality health care and fix what‘s broken.

Those are things people are agreeing on.

MADDOW: Briefly, you think that you do have a unified offense. Obviously, I‘m less optimistic about that. But you‘re more--you‘re in a better position to know.

KLOBUCHAR: There‘s a few people that go on the bench every so often that are brought back in. Yes. I do believe that in the end, people want to get something done. We just can‘t put our heads in the sand.

MADDOW: Well, briefly, let me just ask you about the defense.

KLOBUCHAR: OK.

MADDOW: Senator Coburn, planning on calling for the entire bill to be read aloud, Orrin Hatch--on the Republican side--saying he will wage "holy war" against it. I mean, they‘re arguing against this bill by saying everything up to, and including the fact that it‘s just too long to be made into a law.

KLOBUCHAR: You know.

MADDOW: What‘s the strategy against the Republicans?

KLOBUCHAR: OK. Could I say this, first of all? My favorite length of a bill was the original Bush TARP bill, which was three pages long--a lot of good that did, without any of the accountability measures.

OK. So, length, short bill isn‘t always the best. Secondly, I think this was Claire McCaskill‘s line. If you really put it in the right font size, this bill is actually shorter than Sarah Palin‘s book. So, you know, let‘s look at it realistically. If you can read the book, then you can read this bill.

MADDOW: All right. Fewer pictures.

(CROSSTALK)

KLOBUCHAR: I think, the other thing, Rachel, this is 17 percent of the economy. This is going to affect so many people in their lives. So many people have been just trying to hold on to their businesses. People have been trying to hold on to their kids‘ health care.

The fact that it is complicated when we‘re dealing with an industry, an insurance industry, that has found so many loopholes and ways to turn things around, I don‘t think it‘s a surprise that you have a complicated bill. I think the American people would demand no less than that, if you had a tiny little bill, how are you going to be able to take this major subject on.

So, I don‘t really buy that argument. I think that you‘re going to see all kinds of things thrown out there, as you did in the summer--all the death panels and the rationing and all those things. I think the American people have started learning more about this. They still have questions. That‘s why you interview people like me and you have people on to talk about it. That‘s why you‘re going to have a very vigorous debate in the home states as well as in Congress.

But, in the end, what I found in our state, especially through the last few months, is that there is consensus, especially in Minnesota where you‘ve got this health care that‘s so high quality that we want to try to promote that kind of health care and that we want to bring stability to the people of this country when it comes to their health care.

MADDOW: Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota--thank you for a very rich in metaphors discussion tonight. Good to talk to you about this.

KLOBUCHAR: I know you‘d like it.

MADDOW: Of course, I do.

KLOBUCHAR: Goodbye.

MADDOW: Thank you.

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