MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

Interview

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Joining us now is Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island. He is a member of the Senate Judiciary and Intelligence Committees. He‘s also a former federal prosecutor from the state of Rhode Island.

Senator Whitehouse, thanks for joining us so late on a Friday. I really appreciate it.

SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D), RHODE ISLAND: I‘m happy to be with you, Rachel. Thank you for inviting me.

MADDOW: As a former U.S. attorney, what is your reaction to so many Republicans, really, claiming today that federal courts aren‘t equipped to handle terrorism cases?

WHITEHOUSE: Well, the record is to the contrary.

MADDOW: Yes.

WHITEHOUSE: There have been literally hundreds of trials of terrorists. The Federal Bureau of Prisons estimates that there are more than 350 domestic and international terrorists incarcerated in our prisons after having been convicted. And the military commissions have a record of three convictions.

So, if you are looking for the tried and true and tested way of delivering justice to terrorists, the federal courts, with the United States prosecutors of the Department of Justice are the proven way to go.

MADDOW: You sit on the intelligence and judiciary committees, both of which are really at the heart of the U.S. government‘s response to terrorism. Beyond the question of guilt for these individual defendants, do you think there is an impact on al Qaeda‘s strength, it‘s ability to recruit people who would attack us, to have a Khalid Sheikh Mohammed on trial or in prison alongside more common criminals, instead of languishing the way he has at Guantanamo and in CIA secret prison?

WHITEHOUSE: Well, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his cohorts will obviously be on trial. But in the eyes of the world, so will the American system of justice be on trial. And we have a long tradition of very effective justice being delivered in our courts and by prosecutors.

So, I think, in terms of the lesson to the world, it‘s a strong one. I also think that it‘s an important lesson to scratch away where we can at the notion that these people are jihad warriors. That enables them in a way that helps their mission. The more we treat them like common criminals, the more effective our strategy at winning the battle for minds, I think, in the Middle East and around the world.

MADDOW: That goes right to the heart of one of the other argument that‘s coming from critics of this decision today. Republicans saying that if we allow these defendants to be tried in a real American court, as part of that--as part of that process, they will be allowed to speak. The worry being that their ideology is so dangerous that they will persuading, I guess, recruits to join them by virtue of what they say in court.
Do you think there is legitimacy to that argument?

WHITEHOUSE: I think it‘s obviously a concern, but in this country, we put up with a lot of distasteful speech, in the broader interest of showing the world that we are a country that can tolerate all of that. And the lesson that America imparts to the world, the beacon of light that we hold up in that shadowed world, is probably our strongest asset. And so, I feel confident that when we go that through the proven mechanism of prosecutors of the United States Department of Justice, bringing cases in the United States federal courts, we show a very strong part of America to the world.

MADDOW: Senator Whitehouse, the Obama administration also today recommitting itself to military tribunals for an accused bomber of the USS Cole and four other defendants. Could those cases--should those cases also be taken up in a real Article III court?

WHITEHOUSE: I think, behind the question about the federal court is the underlying question of whose call this should be. And as a former prosecutor, I‘m very comfortable that this call should be the call of the prosecutors, and the military officers who are engaged in the executive branch in deciding what is the best venue to get the result that we want, which is a fair and solid demonstration of American justice.

And I think in these cases, a very strong likelihood, we want that conviction and we want punishment. To leave that decision in their hands is the right way to go constitutionally. And of all the people to interfere, I think members of Congress are the worst to interfere in that decision.

First of all, we don‘t know what we‘re talking about in terms of the facts that the prosecutors have looked at in making that decision. And second of all, this is an executive function and Congress is the least-suited branch of government to get involved in this prosecutorial decisions.

As a prosecutor, if a member of Congress tried to tell me what to do with the prosecution, I would push back very, very hard. It simply isn‘t a proper role.

So, there is a, I think, considerable deference that should properly attend to Attorney General Holder‘s decision. He has the facts, member of Congress don‘t.

MADDOW: Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island, speaking both as a Democratic U.S. senator and also as a former federal prosecutor tonight--thank you very much for joining us, sir.

WHITEHOUSE: A pleasure.

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