MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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Joining me now is Maryland Congressman Chris Van Hollen, chairman of the DCCC.

Congressman, good to have you on tonight.

REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D), MARYLAND: Good to be with you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: I don‘t want to overstate this. And I realize that everybody in Denmark isn‘t going to be happy, so to speak. But I‘m hearing a lot of consternation on the left that this public option doesn‘t go far enough, and, actually, the president isn‘t for a public option. He‘s for a trigger.

I need you to answer to this tonight if you can.

VAN HOLLEN: Well, number one, the president has been clearly for the public option from day one. He said it in all his statements. He said it before his joint address before the Congress. And in the House, we passed a strong public option.

You know, Ed, there have been lots of different versions of the public option out there. We passed the same one that Senator Kennedy pushed through his committee in the Senate. That‘s what we adopted in the House, along with a number of other provisions, including eliminating the antitrust exemption that has shielded insurance companies from competition.

So, there‘s a lot in the House bill that‘s very strong. And when we go to conference with the Senate, we‘re going to push hard for the strongest public option we can get, as well as these provisions that remove the shields for insurance companies.

SCHULTZ: Chris, which public option does Barack Obama want? I mean, when does he step up and tell the Democratic leadership, this is where we‘re going, this is what my base wants?

Right now, it looks like the president is out there willing to do anything he can to get Olympia Snowe or Susan Collins or any other Republican out there just to be able to call it a bipartisan bill. And this is shaking the base. This is not what they voted for.

VAN HOLLEN: Well, I think we made great progress when Harry Reid, in the Senate, came out and said when we brings the two bills together from the two Senate committees, he‘s going to have a public option included. There is an opt-out for states, but I think we all know that‘s a big hurdle to meet to try and get your state out of a public option.

In the House, obviously, we have a broad-based public option. We don‘t think that people should be opting out, but at least that‘s a high hurdle to make.

SCHULTZ: OK. So when you bring these bills together--now, Congressman, when you bring these bills together, you mean the president has no opinion?

I mean, there are versions of the public option that are definitely different. There‘s a big difference between a mandate to a state and then a trigger.

If you support the trigger--and I would be really surprised if this were to pass in the House--if you support the trigger, that means you trust government. You‘re trusting government that, well, the market conditions didn‘t work, so we‘re going to kick in the public option. That‘s what the trigger is about.

You don‘t start with public option. It kicks in if the market conditions don‘t work.

That‘s not what liberals voted for. The people who supported Barack Obama, they didn‘t do this trigger thing. They want it right out of the shoot.

And the president now, it seems to me, from what I‘m hearing, is not being straight with Harry Reid. He‘s behind channels saying, oh, let‘s go with the trigger so we can get some Republicans. Wow.

VAN HOLLEN: Well, Ed, for the reasons you state, as you know, we don‘t have a trigger in the House bill. We never considered having a trigger in the House bill.

I really don‘t know what‘s going on in discussions between the president and Harry Reid in the Senate. What I do know is in the House, we believe in the public option that we have got, which is identical, as I said, to the one that came out of Senator Kennedy‘s office.

We think it‘s strong, especially combined with other provisions in the House bill to keep the insurance rates down, to keep premiums down. And we‘re going to push with the White House and with the Senate to have the House version prevail when we go to conference.

SCHULTZ: OK. You‘ve got to get people in office, you‘ve got to get people elected. You‘re the quarterback of this whole thing, re-election and everything else.

How strong do you think it has to be and how solid does this bill have to be? How much selling is going to have to be done a year from now, at the midterm, that this isn‘t a loser for the Democrats? Because if it turns out the way it sounds right now, there‘s going to be some people that are going to feel disenfranchised and say, you know what? This hasn‘t changed, they didn‘t deliver the mail.

VAN HOLLEN: Well, Ed, look, I think this is a winner.

First of all, we‘re going to have 96 percent of the American people covered. Tens of millions of Americans who have no coverage right now will be covered.

SCHULTZ: So you can sell that to the--you can sell this in the next election? You think as it sits right now, you‘ll be OK?

VAN HOLLEN: I do, because those people who do have coverage, who represent--as you know, represent the majority of Americans, are going to be protected from rapidly increasing rates. Right now, as you know, these rates are going through the roof. Those are going to be leveled off over time. They‘re not going to go crazy like they would under the status quo.

And I think that a number of provisions that are going to kick in

immediately--for example, what insurance companies do today, which is,

when you need your insurance the most, when you get sic, they take it away some of those things are going to go into effect right away, immediately, right out of the box. I think we‘re going to have a very good product to take to voters.

SCHULTZ: Well, don‘t take offense with my aggressiveness, Congressman. This is all the vetting process for the people.

It‘s a 1,900-page bill. We‘ve got a lot of reading to do. But my struggle with the bill right now on the House side, doesn‘t cover enough people, doesn‘t offer the choice. And I‘m not convinced that the mechanism of competition is in place to bring rates down. We‘ve got a long way to go.

You disagree, obviously.

VAN HOLLEN: We‘ve got a long way to go. We‘ve got to get the votes on this bill in the House.

SCHULTZ: Well, that‘s right.

VAN HOLLEN: And I think if you look at the House bill, especially the affordability credits provided so that we make sure that, as we ask people to take on the responsibility of getting insurance, that we‘re going to make sure that it‘s affordable. That‘s a critical piece of the House bill. It‘s preferable in many ways, as you know, to the Senate bill.

We do have a stronger competition component with our version of the public option in the House bill. And we meet the president‘s requirement that we reduce the deficit, not only over the 10-year period...

SCHULTZ: I‘ve got to run here. I‘m short on time.

But you need the president to step up and say what he wants. That‘s what leadership is. I mean, there‘s just too much legislating going on right here. That‘s my opinion.

Congressman, great to have you with us.

VAN HOLLEN: And I know he‘s going to weigh in, Ed. He will weigh in.

SCHULTZ: I hope--well, now‘s the time. All the bills are here.

VAN HOLLEN: All right.

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