MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

Interview

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OLBERMANN: A lot to talk about tonight with Senator Ron Wyden, Democrat of Oregon, and a member of the finance committee.

Thanks again for your time tonight, Senator.

SEN. RON WYDEN (D), OREGON: Thank you, Keith.

OLBERMANN: In previewing your vote on the finance committee bill, during the debate this afternoon, you said you would be voting yes--and quoting you--"to move this legislation forward."

What do you believe needs to still be done to this legislation as it moves forward?

WYDEN: Keith, we‘ve got to do a lot more to hold the insurance lobby accountable. And that means choice. That means public choices. It means private choices.

What we learned today is that, under the bill, seven years in, more than 90 percent of the American people wouldn‘t have real choices at the exchanges. That‘s just unacceptable. And we‘re going to stay at it until we turn the tables on the insurance industry.

OLBERMANN: I‘m missing something about the courtship of Senator Snowe. As nice as it is to see--support for the whole concept of this coming from the other side of the aisle; at best, if materially, she supports a trigger for a public option--such as what you just described. Is her vote supposed the start of some sort of mass seeing of the light by Republicans or the more conservative Democrats? Is there any insight you can offer to me as to the strategy behind this?

WYDEN: I hope it will. The bottom line is, the American people are going to insist on reform that holds their premiums down. What we learned again today is that this legislation doesn‘t do that. I talked about people who were making about $66,000 a year. They are going to pay something like 20 percent of their income on health care. That‘s going to be unacceptable.

What we got to do is make sure that the insurance lobby sees that there are real choices. With choice, you get more competition. That makes coverage more affordable. We‘ve got a lot of stages in this process to go at it, and we‘re going to take on the status quo caucus which is led by the insurance lobby and get this done.

OLBERMANN: If you take away some of the dress-up game that the

insurance lobby did yesterday with this report that they put out, they were

essentially admitting, fairly bold face, that they will raise premiums

under the current reforms as they now stand having been passed by the

finance committee. They tried to dress up this threat with these cookbooks

that were cookbooks to such a degree that the accountants who got them the

wrong numbers admitted they were cooked and sort of stepped away from the

final product

But there was a threat in there, nonetheless, from the insurance companies: pass this, we will raise your premiums--whether it‘s the necessity of nature causing this to happen or just their own greed causing it to happen. They‘re saying it‘s going to happen.

Where is the outrage from the Senate, from the leaders of--in the administration to just the concept of a threat by the insurance industry?

WYDEN: I could tell you, Keith, you‘re going to hear it every day from this point on. It‘s unacceptable to let the insurance industry call the shots. I mean, to do this study, for example, on the eve of the big vote. I mean, I‘ve been around Washington, D.C. And the fact is, that you got a checkbook, you can just get about any set of facts you want.

But the insurance industry is already shellacking people with these huge premium hikes. We‘re going to stay at it until we get more competition, until we get real choice. At every rally in this country, the president promises the American people choices like their members of Congress get. So, I‘m going to insist on that.

OLBERMANN: I understand the need to move this bill out of the committee in order to fix it after it got out of that sort of hothouse environment. But what do you plan to do if the legislation doesn‘t get fixed to your satisfaction and to the public‘s satisfaction? What if the final bill is reform in name only and it‘s paid for on the backs of the middle class?

WYDEN: Keith, I can tell you, my price is real reform. There is no bobble. There is no key support that is going to persuade me to support the kind of bill you just described.

We‘re going to have to make sure that the American people see that this time it‘s different. The lobbyists have tremendous clout. We all understand it. That study yesterday is just an example. But this time, it‘s going to be different because we‘re going to stay at it until insurance companies are held accountable and premiums go down.

OLBERMANN: Can you see any way, theoretically or otherwise, for that to be accomplished without a public option in the final measure?

WYDEN: I never draw lines in the sand, but I can tell you--I am going to fight every single day for these choices, public choices and private choices. That‘s the best way to hold the insurance lobby accountable. That‘s what they fear. That‘s why they‘re spending all this money to try to derail reform.

OLBERMANN: Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon and the finance committee--great thanks once again for your time tonight.

WYDEN: Thank you, Keith.

OLBERMANN: For more on the analysis, we‘re trying to figure out what went on today and what may yet happen. Let‘s turn to our own Lawrence O‘Donnell, former chief of staff of the Senate Finance Committee, now contributor to the "Huffington Post" and, of course, a regular with us here on COUNTDOWN.

Good evening to you, sir.

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