MSNBC "Countdown With Keith Olbermann" - Transcript

Interview

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SHUSTER: With us tonight from the finance committee is Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon.

And good evening, Senator.

SEN. RON WYDEN (D), OREGON: Thanks for having me.

SHUSTER: Of course. Ten Democrats on your committee voted for a public option today. Is that a better or worse position than the public option held yesterday?

WYDEN: My sense is that this fight is far from over, and, in fact, I‘m going to keep pushing for choice, both private choices and public choices, because that‘s how you get insurance company accountability. Of course, we would have rather won today, but the fact of the matter is, Americans learned today that this system is walled off from competition and choice. I‘ll be offering a proposal that gives all Americans choices, like members of Congress have. Through competition, we can hold the insurance companies accountable. This fight is far from over.

SHUSTER: As far as Chairman Baucus, a Democrat, can you explain why he, Chairman Baucus, who unveiled a reform blueprint a year ago that had a public option, has been drifting away ever since, culminating with his vote against the public option twice today? Even though he said he still supports the public option--I mean, how can he claim to have any credibility? Who are his real constituents? Are they the three Republican moderates he‘s hoping to attract?

WYDEN: I‘ll take him at his word, but I think we‘ve got an opportunity to round up the votes on the floor of the United States Senate. And I want to make sure that all Americans can have choices. For example, under the public option approaches that had been taken in previous bills, more than 85 percent of the country wouldn‘t be able to choose a public option. Let‘s make sure these choices are available to all Americans. That‘s what my proposal, the "Free Choice" proposal, would to do tomorrow.

SHUSTER: Senator Rockefeller, who saw his public option amendment defeated today, said that the underlying Baucus bill--that‘s the basis for all these amendments--is now shaping up as almost a half a trillion dollar giveaway to the insurance companies. Rockefeller doesn‘t sound like a sure bet therefore to help pass reform without a public option. Does Chairman Baucus have 60 Democratic votes without a public option? Does he have your vote without any sort of public option?

WYDEN: I‘m certainly not going to support legislation that doesn‘t let consumers hold insurers accountable. If you got somebody, for example, at a midsize company and their insurer is abusing them, just ripping them off, giving them crummy, overpriced service thee way these bills are written now, the consumer couldn‘t go get anything else. That‘s not right.

Members of Congress in the Washington, D.C. area, if their insurer rips them off in the fall of 2009, come January of 2010, they have more than a dozen, good quality, affordable choices. When the insurance companies can‘t discriminate against them, low administrative cost, I think a lot of us on the Senate Finance Committee are going to insist on the opportunity for consumers that real accountability over the insurance industry.

SHUSTER: You mentioned that your proposal, which I imagine that you‘re going to introduce tomorrow, depending on the timing. What sort of support does it have among the Republican Caucus right now and do you fear that some of the Democrats will say, "Wait a second, we don‘t want to go with Wyden‘s proposal because that will perhaps mean that there won‘t be any sort of public amendment that might introduced on the Senate floor"?

WYDEN: I think it‘s attractive to both sides. For example, I think, Republicans ought to look at our proposal and say choice in competition--that‘s what the Republicans are all about. That‘s the free enterprise system. That‘s how you make markets work.

For Democrats, what I‘ve said, and I voted for both of the proposals today, is, let‘s make sure that all of Americans have choice. I remember the summer and all of the rallies, I‘d see folks carrying those public option signs and I‘d have to tell them more than 85 percent of you won‘t get to choose the public option and folks were practically falling out of the bleachers. They want everybody to have choice.

So, I think we have arguments for both sides of the aisle, and I think once all Americans have choice and are in a position to hold the insurance companies accountable, that is genuine transformation of the American health system.

SHUSTER: Bottom line--what does the Baucus bill have to be changed to in order to make sure it holds all the Democrats and still, I suppose, leaves open the option of a couple of Republicans joining in?

WYDEN: What I think colleagues are looking for is, first and foremost, affordability. You know, under this legislation, Americans are going to be required to buy health coverage. If it‘s crummy coverage and you don‘t have choice and you‘re forced to buy it, you‘re not going to see people very happy about that. So, I think affordability and making sure that consumers have choice so they can hold these insurance industry accountable--those are going to be the key issues.

And I think choice and affordability are two sides of the same coin. If your policy isn‘t affordable for you and your family, you ought to be able to get something else, particularly the kind of coverage members of Congress have.

SHUSTER: Senator Ron Wyden, Democrat from Oregon, in the midst of a fascinating markup hearing in the Senate Finance Committee. And, Senator, thanks as always for coming on. We appreciate it.

WYDEN: Thanks for having me.

SHUSTER: You‘re welcome.

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