MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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Joining me now, Oregon Senator Ron Wyden, member of the Senate Finance Committee, and working on two-hour sleep. They finished up at 2:00 in the morning last night.

Senator, good to have you with us. I‘m glad you have a smile on your face, because I don‘t think you were smiling last night, when the committee did not take a vote on your amendment about choice. Now, what is your--your claim now is that there are going to be Americans out there who are working in the private sector that are not going to be able to get out and get a better policy? Is that what this--your beef is about? What is it?

SEN. RON WYDEN (D), FINANCE COMMITTEE: That‘s absolutely right, Ed. The fact of the matter is, under this legislation, if you work for a company, say a mid-sized company, and your insurer is ripping you off, abusing you, under the legislation, you‘re formally stuck. You wouldn‘t be allowed to go into the marketplace--it‘s called an exchange--and get something better.

That‘s not right. We ought to make it possible for consumers to hold the insurance lobby accountable.

I would also point out I think it‘s going to be really hard for members of Congress to explain why their constituents get no choices, while elected officials here in Washington, D.C. get lots of them, good, quality ones.

SCHULTZ: All right. Based on that, will you still vote for this bill? Where do you stand at this hour?

WYDEN: Ed, we are running on fumes this evening, because I went to bed around 6:00 a.m. And we‘re still looking at the legislation. We‘re going to fix this. American people deserve real health reform. We have a progressive president. We have a progressive Congress. We can get this job done right.

We can hold people‘s premiums down and we can promote real competition. As you know, I support options, both public options, private options. The fact of the matter is all Americans ought to have choices. Their elected officials do.

Let me tell you something, Ed, if an insurance company were to rip off a member of Congress in October of 2009, come January of 2010, the member of Congress can go out and get some options. That‘s what it‘s going to take to hold premiums down. I‘m going to insist everybody gets it, not just members of Congress.

SCHULTZ: I want you to respond to this sound bite here. This is the chairman, Max Baucus. Here he is on the insurance companies.

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SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D), FINANCE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: The insurance--the companies are going to start dropping employees. They‘re going to start dropping them. They‘re going to say, hey, I have a smaller pool here. I got sicker people. I‘m just going to start dropping. It is very destabilizing. I cannot think of a major member either so opposed by both business and labor. Both. Both.

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SCHULTZ: I want you to respond to that, Senator Wyden. Is that true?

Do you agree with him on that?

WYDEN: Ed, first of all, I understand that there is a status quo caucus out there that doesn‘t want the American consumer to have the kinds of choices members of Congress have. They are slicing a fat hog. Yes, you have some folks in business and in labor. Their benefits managers get to call all the shots. They control all the money. And they consider it a threat to give workers more choices.

I just think if we‘re going to hold these insurance companies accountable, the worker ought to be able to turn the tables on them.

SCHULTZ: Yes or no answer: is there a mandate in the Senate Finance Committee bill?

WYDEN: There certainly is a personal responsibility requirement. We tried to relieve folks from it. I will tell you, Ed, I have some reservations about that as well. What we ought to be doing is coming up with affordable coverage, so people can buy it.

SCHULTZ: OK. So there is a mandate. What about taxing benefits?

Are some benefits still going to be taxed?

WYDEN: I‘ve always said that if you have folks at Goldman Sachs getting 40,000 dollars worth of benefits, you shouldn‘t have a working class woman who doesn‘t have coverage subsidizing them. We‘re still working on that issue. I don‘t think we should be giving a handout at taxpayer expense to Goldman Sachs‘ executives.

SCHULTZ: Finally, senator, what about this amendment from the senator from Washington, Maria Cantwell? Can you buy into that? Do you really think 50 states are going to be able to go off on their own and do their own deal and set up these pools? And do you think that will satisfy consumers in this country in?

WYDEN: Ed, I think Maria Cantwell is headed in the right direction. As you know, we in the northwest always like to lead. This is a replica of what they‘re doing in Washington State. The real answer is to get the biggest possible insurance pools. That‘s how the consumer gets the best deal. That‘s what members of Congress have. That‘s going to hold the insurers accountable.

SCHULTZ: Get some sleep, senator. Good to have you with us tonight.

All the best.

WYDEN: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Senator Ron Wyden from Oregon with us.

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