MSNBC "Hardball With Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

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MATTHEWS: It seems like after all of this long talk, well, let‘s go to Senator Schumer, we have him joining us right now, the strategists will be right back later. Let‘s bring in Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, a member of the Finance Committee and a strong champion of the public option.

You had two votes today, Senator, one five Democrats voted against, the public option offered by Jay Rockefeller, then you lost with three Democrats voting against you. Is there hope for the public option?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), FINANCE COMMITTEE: Oh, yes, I believe there is. If you follow this closely, we said all along we never expected to win in Finance Committee. In fact, there some were who saying we were going to get so few votes we shouldn‘t bring it up.

We gained votes today to get 10 votes in this, which is the most difficult terrain for the public option because the Finance Committee is more conservative than the Senate Democrats as a whole, and the Senate Democrats as a whole are more conservative than the House and the conference.

So this was really good news for us. We‘re clearly not there, but not a single Democrat has said I‘m absolutely against the public option. Chairman Baucus said he likes it but he wants to see if it can get 60 votes. And we‘re feeling that we might get there.

MATTHEWS: If you lose by the--lose the same percentage of Democrats on the floor or anything like it, you can‘t get--well, you‘d be lucky to get 50 votes, wouldn‘t you?

SCHUMER: Yes, but.

MATTHEWS: How many Democrats oppose the public option right now in the Senate?

SCHUMER: Well, very few. Even Conrad and Baucus today said that they were open the public option as we move to the floor. So, there has been no commitment. Senator Baucus said that he needs to see that it has 60 votes. That‘s a reasonable request, and we‘re going to show him.

I have talked to every member of the moderate Democratic caucus. None of them have closed the door on the public option. There may be some adjustments and tweaks we have to make, but I think we‘re in pretty good shape.

And then you get to the conference where Nancy Pelosi says she wants a strong public option. And as you see it unfolding, we‘re moving in the direction of getting a public option.

MATTHEWS: Mr. Conrad disagrees with you, right? He says there‘s not enough votes for 60 votes. You can‘t get a unanimous Democratic Party or near unanimous vote for a public option. So, there is a disagreement on this. Right?

SCHUMER: There is a disagreement, but I think that today‘s debate, where we clearly had the momentum, where the people against us were quite positive in their comments on the substance.

And one other thing that‘s happening. It‘s sinking in. You know, in August the right wing launched all of their attacks on public option and said it‘s a government takeover.

What has happened now is as people learn what it really is, we‘re not going to get Republican votes, that‘s for sure, but more and more Democrats are open to it. As I said, when we began this morning, we were two votes fewer than we had on the vote itself. We were pleasantly surprised by getting 10, and with some moderates voting with us. And so--Bill Nelson, Tom Carper who, you know, are no different than the moderates on the floor.

So, I think that we‘re feeling good. And all of us are pleasantly surprised that we‘re making progress. A month ago, people said the public option is dead. They‘re not saying that anymore.

MATTHEWS: Let‘s take a look at this. I want your response on tactics since you‘re a leading member of the Senate. Here‘s a TV ad that‘s running in the District of Columbia and also running in Montana. Let‘s listen, Senator.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last June, I collapsed because of congenital heart problems. I need open-heart surgery but have no insurance and no company will insure me. My friends and family have been a blessing. With hearts as big as the Montana sky, they‘ve helped with bake sales and benefits. But my wife and I still owe over $100,000 in medical bills.

None of this debt would have piled up if I‘d had the option of buying into a public health insurance plan. Senator Baucus, when you take millions of dollars from health and insurance interests that oppose reform and oppose giving families like mine the choice of a public option, I have to ask, whose side are you on?

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MATTHEWS: Is that hardball working, Senator?

SCHUMER: No, it‘s not.

MATTHEWS: I know the interest groups, they come by and they love this stuff because it‘s the hardball they love, but are the netroots and the people like that who are playing tough with these guys working and helping you up there?

SCHUMER: I think it‘s--yes--no, it‘s hurting us, and I wish they wouldn‘t do it. What we have to do is show Max Baucus that we have the votes. Today he said he likes the public option. If he thought there were 60 votes on the floor of the Senate, he would be for it.

His job is to get a bill through, and we all know that getting a bill through is job number one. And we‘re showing him. My guess is that if you ask Max Baucus at the end of today, he was impressed. He was impressed with the arguments. He was impressed that we picked up some moderates on the Finance Committee who people didn‘t expect. And that‘s going to continue on the floor.

MATTHEWS: Are you hopeful about Maine? You have got Senator Olympia Snowe out there discussing this issue. She was against you today, but I‘m wondering, according to the polling I‘m getting from the--again, from the interest groups that are pushing for this on the liberal side of things that overwhelmingly the people of Maine want the public option. Is that going to help you?

SCHUMER: I think the polling is helping us. After all of the attacks leveled at the public option, a New York Times survey which asked the question right down the middle found 65 percent of the public are for it. And that‘s what Democrats are realizing.

Here‘s what is going on here. We have to bring the whole party together. We can‘t rely on any Republican votes, as much as we would like to have Olympia and hope we will have her. And so the more moderates in the party know that they have to come together with the more liberals in the party, and there are a whole bunch of different issues.

And I think, my view, the way I would structure it, having a public option is something that everyone can support and they‘ll give us some flexibility in other areas. And I think as those of us who are putting together the final bill will study it, that‘s what others are going to find out.

So, you know, we lost today. We said we were going to lose before the day began. We didn‘t expect it would be this close. And there‘s momentum. It‘s going to keep getting better. Better on the floor than in the Senate and better in the Senate Finance Committee and better in the conference where the House has 70 to 100 members who say they won‘t vote for anything without a public option.

MATTHEWS: Well, you‘re a fighter, Senator Schumer. It‘s good to have you on the show. Clearly, you‘re not giving up. You see victory there. Thank you so much for coming on.

Let‘s go now to Republican.

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