MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

Interview

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MADDOW: That‘s at 3:50 p.m. Eastern Time in a 10-13 against vote. The Charles Schumer public option amendment died, alongside its Rockefeller counterpart.
What does this mean?

Well, joining us from the Russell Rotunda on Capitol Hill is Senator Chuck Schumer.

Senator, thank you for taking the time on this busy day.

SCHUMER: Good evening.

MADDOW: You and I agreed on Thursday that if the public option could make it in the Senate Finance Committee, it looked pretty good that it could make it anywhere--maybe all the way into the final bill. What does it mean that it didn‘t survive that committee today?

SCHUMER: Well, look, it would have been better if it had passed. And certainly, it didn‘t. But we picked up votes we didn‘t expect, particularly on my amendment, Jay and I working as a team.

And, you know, the Senate Finance Committee is the toughest terrain here. It‘s more conservative than the Senate as a whole, populated by a large number of rural senators. And the Senate as a whole is less conservative--is more conservative than the House.

So, this is an uphill fight. We knew it. But, you know, a month ago, the public option was dead. Now, we‘re alive and fighting. Even two of the three senators who spoke out against it said they were interested in it, and we‘re going to keep working at it until we get this done. It‘s too important to good health care not to have the public option.

And while I wouldn‘t say to you we‘re definitely--you know, we‘re certain of winning on the Senate floor, we‘re going to work hard at it, and I think we have a pretty good chance.

MADDOW: There were five Democratic senators who voted no on Senator Rockefeller‘s amendment. Only three of those senators voted no on your amendment. Did you imagine that you could pick up potentially more Senate Democrats who voted no, some of those three might further change or you think they‘re qualitatively opposed?

SCHUMER: No, I think they‘re open to change. I mean, Senator Baucus, himself, as you showed on your show, said he was for it but wanted to see 60 votes. He obviously cares very much and wants to pass a health care bill.

And I think--and I said this in the committee meeting--that by working hard, we‘ll be able to show him 60 votes. It may not be exactly as I proposed or as Jay proposed, but it will be a good, strong public option. I have spoken to just about every one of my moderate Democratic colleagues. Not a single one has closed the door on the public option on the Senate floor.

So, to say that the bill is dead and this is over is wrong. It‘s underestimating the strong support we have out in the country. It‘s also underestimating the fight of those of us who care a lot about it.

Again, is this going to be easy? No. But, at the end of the day, as you go through the process, I think we have a darn good chance of getting a good public option in the bill.

MADDOW: Let me ask you about one thorny issue that I know has a lot -

· a lot of political oomph to it, and that is the 60-vote threshold. When you say that the public option doesn‘t necessarily have 60 votes now, it might ultimately have 60 votes. When you assume that 60-vote threshold rather than 50 votes--are you saying that some Democrats would literally filibuster a Democratic reform bill just because the public option was in it? Democrats will vote to filibuster?

SCHUMER: Well, they can repose a filibuster on the specific amendment, not on the bill. But that‘s one of the things we‘re looking at here, saying to some members, "Look, a vast majority of the caucus supports public option. Vote yes on cloture to let us have the vote, and then vote your principles, conscience, whatever you will when we get to the 51."

So, yes, that is--that is a real chance to do this. Obviously, we‘re first trying for 60. If we can‘t get to 60, some of us will argue that for the public option and some other things, we can go to the 51-vote margin. Not so much on reconciliation, but getting Democrats to vote for cloture, even if they don‘t support the bill, giving your fellow Democrats a chance to have their voice.

MADDOW: Do you have support from other members of the Democratic leadership and specifically from Senator Reid from an approach like that?

SCHUMER: Well, Senator Reid has not unveiled his approach. We‘ve been talking about it. He‘s waiting until the finance committee finishes the bill. But I know he is for a public. Each member of the leadership, of the four in the Democratic leadership, are for a public option. So, that gives me some cause for optimism here.

MADDOW: Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, who tried hard but unsuccessful--ultimately unsuccessful trying to get the public option into the Senate Finance Committee‘s health reform bill.

SCHUMER: The fight is not over, Rachel. Fight is not over.

MADDOW: Fight is not over. And you‘re being able to tell what‘s going on as it‘s happening from Capitol Hill is invaluable. Thank for your time, sir.

SCHUMER: I will do my best. Thanks. Bye-bye.

MADDOW: Governor Howard Dean will join us next in studio. Stay with us.

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