MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

In the playbook tonight, the battle over health care reform is getting louder, much louder. Members of Congress, home for the August recess, are being shouted down at town hall by organized sign-wielding mobs trying to kill civilized discussion. Now the Congressmen, their staffs and support groups are all trying to figure out how to fight back.

Joining me now, Democratic Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky of Chicago.

Congresswoman Schakowsky, what's your plan? How do you handle this?

REP. JAN SCHAKOWSKY (D), ILLINOIS: First of all, organized is right. This is not about town meetings. This is about political organizations turning out people to stop debate, to stop conversations. That's what the Republicans and these special interests are trying to do.

Town meetings, I don't know if you went to them when you worked for the Senate, but people do get kind of hot. They come with their own particular interests and are there to ask a question, even to pressure the member of Congress, but not to absolutely shut off debate.

What it's become now-we're not going to whine about it. We can do turn out. If they turn out 100, we'll turn out 200. But what about the ordinary constituent who's coming to actually learn something? What does this health care program mean to me? I'm a senior, or I'm a-I can't get health care, because I have a preexisting condition. What happens to me? Or even I don't want to pay more taxes, and so what is that going to do to me?

All of that kind of debate is completely shut down. But I'll tell you, I think the tide is turning in that respect. My office, anyway, is getting real positive calls today about how-from people who really liked this health care plan. But it's turned into a theater that is depriving ordinary constituents in districts around the country from actually meeting with their Congressmen, and finding out what they need to know.

O'DONNELL: We've actually seen something like this before in my memory in Chicago, actually, when Danny Rosinkowski (ph) was hounded by some protesters. Let's look at the videotape of that from 1989.

These were seniors who were protesting a Medicare provision that would have provided long term care, which actually he was key in passing that, and they were surrounding his car. He was having trouble getting out of there.

SCHAKOWSKY: Actually I was-

O'DONNELL: You actually organized this very organized protest, didn't you?

SCHAKOWSKY: No, no. Actually not. I was there that day, as head of the State Council of Senior Citizens. Very different. The Congressman would not come in and talk to that group of seniors who were upset about the catastrophic health care bill, that didn't provide long-term care to seniors. So it wasn't as if they wanted to stop him from talking. He wouldn't meet with that group. So they began to go after him when he was leaving the building, right in the middle of his district. These were actual constituents who had come out, that wanted to get a report back from the leaders who met with him, and what's going on with this program that didn't turn out so great in their estimation.

So the motivation was different. The action was very different. They actually wanted to have dialogue with their Congressman.

O'DONNELL: Well, they actually ended up forcing a repeal of what he managed to get passed. Rosinkowski's reaction to this is interesting, because it's very similar to what we're hearing today. Let's listen to what Danny Rosinkowski had to say at the time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANNY ROSINKOWSKI, FMR. POLITICIAN: They don't understand what the government is trying to do, but it's always their problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you sympathize with their anger?

ROSINKOWSKI: No, I don't think they understand what's going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'DONNELL: You hear that today, Congresswoman, that these protesters standing up at these meeting simply don't understand. They don't care what's going on. They're just there to disrupt.

SCHAKOWSKY: No, actually I use this example as a cautionary note for my colleagues. You know, all the smarty-pants in Washington had figured out-and I think motivated well-that this was going to be good for seniors. The AARP was on board. My national organization, National Council of Seniors, was on board. But they forget to check back with the grassroots people, because when it comes to health care, Lawrence, this is different from other issues, even energy.

What people do is they take pen to paper, and figure out exactly what it is going to mean to them. This was a bill where seniors had to pay premiums two years before the plan actually went into existence. They bore all the costs, as Medicare recipients for this. It wasn't distributed among the population.

So the grass-roots people didn't like this. So I've been saying we better definitely check back with ordinary folks, but I think we have a very strong bill right now that we can actually do that, if we do get a chance to not be disrupted by these people. But if they want to organize, we'll out-organize them. OK, it's all right.

O'DONNELL: All right. You've got experience at that. Thank you, Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky.

SCHAKOWSKY: Thank you.

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