MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

Interview

MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

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SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), HEALTH, EDUC., LABOR & PENSIONS CMTE.:

Good to be with you, Rachel.

MADDOW: There seems to be a gap between the seriousness of what‘s actually being fought over in Washington right now and the level of discourse about it. Why do you think it is that there‘s so much sideshow craziness about this issue?

SANDERS: Well, number one, it is an enormously complicated issue.

It‘s a personal issue. People feel strongly about it.

Frankly, I think, from our side of the aisle, we have not been as clear as we should be in what, in fact, we are fighting for. And one of the problems in that regard is—in my view, at least—if we are serious about trying to develop a universal, comprehensive, cost-effective health care system, the only way you can ring the hundreds of billions of dollars of waste in the system today is through a single-payer system. But that is off of the table because of the power of the insurance companies and the drug companies.

So, if you don‘t do that, then it becomes pretty complicated and it opens up opportunities for the extreme right-wing to come up with their crazy ideas.

MADDOW: They‘re sort of filling the vacuum of the lack of details that people don‘t understand with craziness that people are willing to.

(CROSSTALK)

SANDERS: Well, people do understand—what people do understand, Rachel, I think, is that our current system today is dysfunctional. You know, these guys are talking about, you know, Democrats wanting to kill people.

The reality is that 18,000 people die every single year in this country because they don‘t have access to a doctor when they should. Today, about 1 million families this year are going to go bankrupt because of medically-related costs. You have people who are staying on their jobs who would like to leave because the job provides them decent health care today.

So, we have a dysfunctional system. We have got to address it. But in fact once you don‘t do single-payer, it becomes pretty complicated.

MADDOW: As somebody who has been a long time vocal proponent of the single-payer health care system, what is your reaction to these reports out of the Senate Finance Committee that a bipartisan group of senators is moving forward on some sort of bill that doesn‘t even include a public option, let alone single-payer?

SANDERS: I‘m not happy about that at all. And at the very least, if we can‘t do a single-payer system—at the very least, you‘ve got to give the American people an option of choosing, being able to choose a public plan in competition with the private insurance companies.

And I think the insurance companies and their proponents in the congress, are very afraid and rightfully so, that if given the choice, the people would gravitate towards a public plan because a public plan will not have the administrative costs, the huge CEO compensation costs, and the general bureaucracy that a public plan will have.

But furthermore, if you want to do any kind of cost containment, you need to have the competition from a public plan because without that, the private insurance companies will be out there on their own, being able to raise rates as much as they have in the past.

MADDOW: It‘s very clear to me why the insurance industry wants to keep things the way they are, because they‘re profiting quite handsomely and doing quite well in the system the way it is. Their incentive here makes a lot of sense to me.

SANDERS: Absolutely.

MADDOW: How does it work in Washington, though, in terms of how they get politicians to go along with them—politicians who represent Americans who are by and large completely dissatisfied with this broken system?

SANDERS: Well, Rachel, the gap between Capitol Hill and the rest of the country, I‘m afraid, is very, very wide.

And one of the areas that that gap is fed is the fact that, according to "The Washington Post," the health care industry, if you can believe it, is putting $1.3 million into lobbying every single day, every single day—every single day. And then you‘ve got the drug companies and their advertising. So, with all of that money coming into Capitol Hill, I‘m afraid that too many of my colleagues look at the world from the perspective of the insurance companies, from the drug companies who are charging us the highest prices for medicine in the entire world, rather than from the needs of ordinary Americans.

The antidote to that—and what we have got to do as a nation—is we need a mass mobilization. Millions and millions of people have got to stand up and make it very clear to the president and to Congress that the status quo is simply not acceptable, that we have a dysfunctional health care system, that we‘re the only nation in the world that does not guarantee—industrialized nation that does not guarantee health care to every man, woman and child. And yet, we end up spending almost twice as much as any other country.

We need real health care reform, comprehensive health care reform, and we can do it if we can rally millions of people to help us stand up to the insurance companies and the drug companies.

MADDOW: Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont—thank you so much for your time tonight, sir. It‘s great to have you here.

SANDERS: Good to be with you, Rachel.

MADDOW: In terms of the big American political picture, the roles of the two parties, the governing majorities of the future—because of how Republican senators have hammered away at Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor recently, you might think that mending fences with Latino voters would be a really high priority for the GOP right now. Actually, at this week‘s annual conference of the nation‘s largest Hispanic civil rights advocacy organization, the GOP dispatched no one. That will charm them, I‘m sure.

Stay with us for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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