Interview with Harold Ford, Jr., Tom Cole
Fox News June 1, 2004
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Fox News Network
SHOW: FOX HANNITY & COLMES (21:21)
June 1, 2004 Tuesday
Transcript # 060102cb.253
SECTION: News; Domestic
LENGTH: 1309 words
HEADLINE: Interview With Harold Ford, Jr., Tom Cole
GUESTS: Harold Ford Jr., Tom Cole
BYLINE: Sean Hannity, Alan Colmes
BODY:
COLMES: As we continue on HANNITY & COLMES, I'm Sean Hannity.
Still to come tonight, our own Neil Cavuto has some remarkable stories of people who overcome hardships to succeed, including Neil. We'll tell you about his personal story.
But first, with five months left before election day, the Kerry campaign is making a push into key states with a new television ad that touts the Senator's record across a spectrum of issues.
The Admiral run (ph) in Minnesota, where a new poll has Senator Kerry leading President Bush by three points, but that's, by the way, within the margin of error in a state that Al Gore won easily in 2000.
And the ad will be seen in perhaps the most important state of all, the state of Ohio, where a new Mason-Dixon poll released today has the president up six points over Senator Kerry.
And now that the election is starting to take shape, which candidate is looking at the landscape with a bit of a smile?
Joining us now, our good friend, Tennessee Democratic Congressman Harold Ford Junior and Oklahoma Republican Congressman, Tom Cole. Welcome both of you back.
New Jersey is also in play, too, with a three-point spread there which is another state that Al Gore won easily, in the Quinnepiac poll.
Senator-what do you think about Senator Kerry and what we're saying as conservatives is this is a guy, Congressman Ford, that doesn't have a core. He seems to flip-flop on just about every issue except tax increases. Do you see him as a man with guiding principles?
HAROLD FORD JR. (D), TENNESSEE: I do. And I think the more the country is introduced to him-and first off, thanks for having me on. It's good seeing you.
I think the more the country learns about him, his record, not only in the Senate but before coming to the Senate, they'll see that he's a man not only of principal and conviction but one who is flexible in his thinking, one who recognizes that America faces different set of challenges and threats than we did ten years or even five years ago.
And he understands it for us to not only remain strong and to win abroad but to win even here at home, we have to be willing to think in different ways and new ways.
And I would disagree with any who would say he lacks a core principle. Anyone who would serve his country as this gentleman did, I think it's hard to say that he lacked...
HANNITY: I don't have a problem with his service, Congressman Ford. I have a problem with his positions after service.
Congressman Cole, welcome to you. Is flexible now a new adjective to describe a flip-flopper?
I mean, I look at John Kerry and I admire his service to his country, but he wanted a nuclear freeze. Reagan believed in confronting the evil empire. He voted against the death penalty for terrorists who kill Americans and are convicted.
He couldn't decide on any which way to go on Iraq. I count about 15 different positions culminating with "I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it."
Is it flexible or is it flip-flopper?
REP. TOM COLE ®, OKLAHOMA: I think when you voted against the first Gulf War and for the second was with Iraq, and then voted against appropriations the appropriations to fund that war. The charge of flip- flopper rings true for most Americans.
In fact, I think John Kerry's best days as a candidate are really behind him. The campaign now in being driven by the president and being driven by events on the ground. He's almost irrelevant to the process.
FORD: Can I ask a question, then? Do we consider President Bush a flip-flopper for earlier in this war not wanting the U.N. to be involved and now wanting them to be involved?
HANNITY: He begged-He begged the U.N. To be involved. He went to the U.N. with 1441, Congressman, and begged them to join us. But we know now that they were corrupt, especially the French and the Russians.
FORD: But let's be fair. He did not early on want to turn any responsibility in terms of the rebuilding of the political infrastructure, even the building of a thing in Iraq, over to the U.N.
My point is, I think that we have to, in a time and age which Tom Cole and I serve in the Congress, you have to be able to think about things in a different context, in a larger context.
Remember President Bush didn't support campaign reform initially. He then wants the bill passed. He was not a big supporter of Sarbanes-Oxley, which he thought about ebony...
COLMES: So I think it's only fair that we-we put all of this in context.
COLMES: good to see you on the show. It's Alan.
Congressman Ford, you can go down a list of things that Bush has flip- flopped on.
In terms of John Kerry, if you listen to him, the reason he did not want the death penalty, because they would not then be extradited here by certain country fess where they were caught if we had a death penalty.
The $87 billion was a matter of how we paid the %87 billion. These are thoughtful positions. And to simply take out a sound byte and extract a little sound byte and say that represents John Kerry you know is disingenuous, don't you?
COLE: No. I don't think it's disingenuous at all. I think he has taken a variety of opinions on-whether it's on Iraq, whether it's on defense, whether it's on the Patriot Act. And I think that's coming home to haunt him. You can't say you're thoughtful when you abandon each position successively.
COLMES: He changed his opinions like the people on the Republican side who then say, "Well, September 11 changed everything.
Senator Ford-Congressman Ford, however. I promoted you there for a second.
FORD: I'll take it.
COLMES: You want to make an announcement here?
It seems to me as though it's OK for Republicans to change their minds on certain things, based on September 11 but not for John Kerry. But should John Kerry be doing better given the bad couple of months George Bush has had?
FORD: I think the voters are going to gauge over the next several weeks and the next few months. And as long as John Kerry remains positive, as he did today, offering what I believe is a truism, that America's greatest threat, terrorist organization is getting their hands on nuclear weapons and what steps he would take as president to prevent that by securing nuclear materials.
These are the kinds of issues I think voters want to hear talked about. I just don't believe that some of the attacks-and Sean is a friend and Tom is a friend. I just don't believe that the American people are going to accept the fact that a guy who has three Purple Hearts, a Silver and Bronze Star is somehow weak on these issues and like most of the American people in this election.
COLMES: The flip side of that question I just asked Congressman Ford is, shouldn't President Bush be doing better? If the country is really solidly behind him in this war and he's still 50/50 with Kerry, why isn't he breaking through at this point?
COLE: Well, actually if you went back and looked at Mondale-Reagan, you'd find that Mondale was a point ahead in May.
I think this is the time people the American people get serious about the campaign, but again I would say that Senator Kerry is almost irrelevant to the process: there hasn't been anyone since Wendell Wilkie in '44 or George McCullough (ph) in 1864 who's had less impact on the race. It's being driven by the president and the incidents in Iraq which I think are turning in the president's favor.
HANNITY: Good to see you both.
And coming up next, what means more than money to the host of the No. 1 business show on television? Stay tuned.
And we'll find out what makes Neil Cavuto tick.
And also, a man trying to keep America safe, he's come under attack by his own students. You're not going to believe what the liberals at Berkeley University are trying to do. It's unbelievable. We'll tell you, straight ahead.