Hearing of the House Armed Services Committee

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE

SUBJECT: TRAINING OF IRAQ SECURITY FORCES

CHAIRED BY: REPRESENTATIVE DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA)

WITNESSES: (VIA VIDEO TELECONFERENCE FROM IRAQ) LIEUTENANT GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS, CHIEF, OFFICE OF SECURITY TRANSITION IN IRAQ; AND BRIGADIER GENERAL KEVIN BERGNER, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, POLITICAL MILITARY AFFAIRS, IN THE MIDDLE EAST, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF

LOCATION: 2118 RAYBURN HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

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The gentleman from Oklahoma, Mr. Cole.

REP. TOM COLE (R-OK): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

And, General Petraeus, thank you as well. I was one of the many people who had the opportunity to visit with you when you were in Mosul last October, and came away enormously impressed with your professionalism and the quality of the people that you led and their dedication to the task. And the fact that you've been willing to go back again is something that is real testament to your commitment to our country and to the mission.
Copyright 2004 The Federal News Service, Inc.
Federal News Service

May 17, 2004 Monday

SECTION: PRESS CONFERENCE OR SPEECH

LENGTH: 14644 words

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE SUBJECT: STATUS OF STABILITY OPERATIONS BY COALITION FORCES IN IRAQ

CHAIRED BY: REPRESENTATIVE DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA)

WITNESSES: MAJOR GENERAL FREDDIE VIGGERS, MILITARY SECRETARY, UNITED KINGDOM; MAJOR GENERAL SIMON WILLIS, HEAD, AUSTRALIAN DEFENSE STAFF; LIEUTENANT GENERAL MIECZYSLOW CIENIUCH, FIRST DEPUTY CHIEF, POLISH ARMED FORCES GENERAL STAFF

LOCATION: 2212 RAYBURN HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

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Mr. Cole, the gentleman from Oklahoma.

REP. TOM COLE (R-OK): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

First, before I begin, let me state the obvious. All three of your countries have been tremendous allies and friends in a very complex and difficult operation, and we appreciate that more than I can express.

And we know that the measure of your sacrifice hasn't just been materiel, but it's been in the lives of your soldiers. And we extend our sympathy to those families and certainly to you. And again, I appreciate your friendship. It's been a-you're wonderful partners to have. So thank you very much.

Let me begin by asking all three of you, if we can: We have another ally on the ground that we haven't spoken of, and that's really the Iraqis, and the Iraqi security forces, in particular, that you operate with on a regular basis and that we're all trying to stand up to one degree or another, increase their capability. So I would like to get your respective judgments on the capability of the Iraqi security forces, army, police, various security arms, how well we're doing in that; and how long you think it will be before-not before we can, quote, "go," I wouldn't put it quite that way-but before they become capable enough to operate independently whether we're there or not.

If I could begin with you, General Viggers.

GEN. VIGGERS: Yes. Well, as I referred to right at the start, it was one of the things, I think, that took us back, frankly, as we went through the end of combat operations and into the reconstruction phase, to realize how little there was by way of a security structure in the country. There were no border guards. The Iraqi army had melted away. There was no sense-you hear sometimes in the reporting that we, quote, "disbanded" the Iraqi army. It wasn't-they weren't there. There was no police force as you or I would recognize it. There never had been. The prisoners had been let out of places like the Abu Ghraib. The borders were open.

So one was starting at a fairly low base of capability. And an awful lot of energy was put in last year to training up the police and the border guards, creating the Civil Defense Corps from those who had been in the Iraqi army. We found that technologically they were very, very low level. Things like cars and radios had to be brought in. Kuwait did a huge amount to help us -- (I mean ?) Jordan did a huge amount to help us, Kuwait also is keen to help. And I think a lot of good stuff was done last year to get them to a basic level of structure with a command and control organization that it could begin to make a difference.

I would pay tribute to the Iraqi police, particularly, in Baghdad, under the guidance of Bernie Kerik and others, who were prepared to go up against some very hard-line people in plainclothes with very little by way of technical support.******* Matching of next tape 051715CH.SA

I think we're off to a good start. How much longer have we got to go? I think quite some way, frankly. I think there's another year's-probably-year's worth of work to get these people to a point-and it's more about command and control and equipment than it is about sense of commitment. They've got that. But there's quite some way to go before one can genuinely stand back.

REP. COLE: And General Willis?

GEN. WILLIS: I can't add that much, other than to say that it's very important to win at that level. And whatever you can do to win at that level is-must be done. The establishment of relevant police forces is probably the most critical thing in that sort of environment, and I believe that we are making great strides. And evidence of that is the fact that more trainers are being put into that environment to try and move them along much more quickly.

REP. COLE: General Cieniuch?

GEN. CIENIUCH: Yes. I would like to add that really ??? police is the most important issue in central south zone of responsibility. We prepared about 15,000 policemen. But unfortunately, they are not well prepared, for many reasons. And unfortunately, they are not good equipped. They have not communications equipment, sometimes lack of weapons. And that is why effectiveness for ??? police is not good enough in our sector.

But we think that we have no choice. We have to give them weapons, weapons equipment and more responsibility for a safe life in this sector. Thank you.

REP. COLE: Let me ask basically the same question, with a slightly different twist, about our adversaries. We've clearly come through a period here where we're suffering a higher casualty rate. We were-have been told some of this is part of the lead-up to the transfer of sovereignty. But you also wonder, well, if this is a ?? spike in violence similar to what you referred to earlier, General Viggers, or is this now an enemy that has a sustained capacity, a stronger ability to oppose us than we were seeing in the first few months after the end of major military operations?

GEN. VIGGERS: I think watching it from about this time last year to now, one has seen that the threat has become more sophisticated and more coordinated as time has gone on. There is now a cocktail of those who were part of the former regime, those who are discontented anyway, those who come in from outside the country in order to attack America, for whatever agenda reason they have.

We've seen a different level of capability now than in the early days.

I think we're off to a good start. How much longer have we got to go? I think quite some way, frankly. I think there's another year's-probably-year's worth of work to get these people to a point-and it's more about command and control and equipment than it is about sense of commitment. They've got that. But there's quite some way to go before one can genuinely stand back.

REP. COLE: And General Willis?

GEN. WILLIS: I can't add that much, other than to say that it's very important to win at that level. And whatever you can do to win at that level is-must be done. The establishment of relevant police forces is probably the most critical thing in that sort of environment, and I believe that we are making great strides. And evidence of that is the fact that more trainers are being put into that environment to try and move them along much more quickly.

REP. COLE: General Cieniuch?

GEN. CIENIUCH: Yes. I would like to add that really creation-the police is the most important issue in central south zone of responsibility. We prepared about 15,000 policemen. But unfortunately, they are not well prepared, for many reasons. And unfortunately, they are not good equipped. They have not communications equipment, sometimes lack of weapons. And that is why effectiveness-police for-is not good enough in our sector.

But we think that we have no choice. We have to give them weapons-weapons, equipment and more responsibility for a safe life in this sector. Thank you.

REP. COLE: Let me ask basically the same question, with a slightly different twist, about our adversaries. We've clearly come through a period here where we're suffering a higher casualty rate. We were-have been told some of this is part of the lead-up to the transfer of sovereignty. But you also wonder, well, if this is a spike in violence similar to what you referred to earlier, General Viggers, or is this now an enemy that has a sustained capacity, a stronger ability to oppose us than we were seeing in the first few months after the end of major military operations?

GEN. VIGGERS: I think, watching it from about this time last year to now, one has seen that the threat has become more sophisticated and more coordinated as time has gone on. There is now a cocktail of those who were part of the former regime, those who are discontented anyway, those who come in from outside the country in order to attack America, for whatever agenda reason they have.

We've seen a different level of capability now than in the early days.

It used to be the odd AK-47 and RPG, but suddenly, during my time, one saw more evidence of coordination.

But I would say that it's at a local level. I don't-we never picked it up that this was something being organized at a national level. It was very regional. Fallujah, for example, has been hard going from the beginning of the reconstruction phase.

So I think they are improving in confidence and coordination, but I would see it at a broadly local level. I would also say that our response has been increasing and improving incrementally as well, to deal with these things.

REP. COLE: General Willis?

GEN. WILLIS: I would only add, Mr. Cole, that it seems that these individuals, if they cannot convince by sound, reasoned argument, they turn to the tactics of terror, of murder and destruction and chaos. And that seems to be what's happening in some elements there, in those pockets of resistance.

GEN. CIENIUCH: In my opinion, the most dangerous are terrorists who arrived outside of Iraq, because they are well prepared for this attack. They are better equipped than Iraqi terrorists.

And in the central sector-central south sector, we can say that even terrorists from north-I mean Sunnis-are more dangerous than Shi'a. Thank you.

REP. COLE: May I ask you just-and you've been very democratic-one last question, Mr. Chairman? And just, again, your respective armed forces have been simply magnificent through this entire endeavor. So I'd like to get your assessment of their morale and their situation. Again, they've made an enormous contribution, and we care as deeply about them as we do about our own. So we'd love to get your assessment of how they're doing, what their attitude is.

GEN. WILLIS: Mr. Cole, the attitude from the forces on the ground, those about to replace them and those that have come home, obviously with very minor exception, is very positive. We are not seeing any dips in recruiting or retention figures, which is generally a good indicator. That is not happening. And the morale is high.

REP. COLE: General?

GEN. CIENIUCH: Sir, in our sector, we haven't any problems with morale. And we hope that everything goes well.

REP. COLE: General Viggers?

GEN. VIGGERS: Yeah, exactly the same. It's obviously something we watch very carefully, and particularly, as -- (inaudible) -- in terms of impact of this level of operational tempo on our ability to recruit and to retain people. We do have certain key areas which we're watching very carefully. We would call them niche capabilities, those specialist trades of perhaps pilots, policemen, those that we don't have a great deal of.

I think the only other point I'd make is our reservists are also showing tremendous willingness to get involved and to get the job done. It's-there is a sense that we have to finish this job and the best way to do it is to get involved.

REP. COLE: Well again, I just want to thank you gentlemen, or through you your respective countries. You've been tremendous allies and friends, and we thank you for your support. We couldn't be working with better people. So again, thank you for your contribution.

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And Mr. Cole.

REP. COLE: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Just one last question. Over the course of-we'll find out what are-the will in our respective countries is through pretty established political processes. But I'm very interested if this is at some level-and I assume it is-a contest of wills. Your assessment of the Iraqi people, who are facing enormous challenges, a very difficult situation-they're trying to construct almost from scratch. They're trying to bridge enormous gaps. They're trying to-historic and cultural and-reassemble themselves and do this all in the midst of an armed struggle going on with foreign military forces. So they have an enormous challenge in front of them.

But I would very much-and they have clearly very determined adversaries that don't want this process to work its way through. So what's your respective assessment of their ability to see through this very tough challenge in front of them and their commitment to arrive at some sort of democratic-some sort of civil solution, if you will, to their problems in the face of these kind of difficulties? How do you see them working themselves through this process?

GEN. VIGGERS: I mean, the sensation I got in my time, talking to the Iraqis that I met-and I didn't get the chance to meet many, but there was a very powerful wish to regain control of their country, which they've not had for 30 years. The Ba'athist regime was over. They wanted their-they wanted to run their country in a modern, democratic way, and they wanted to be allowed to get on with it. And that was a sense of a shared objective. As I said, we didn't want to be there for a moment longer than we had to be there either.

And I sense that despite all the turbulent water that we go through, with attacks and the upsets and so on, there is-certainly in my time, and I've seen nothing really to change that in reading the reportings-that they still want to do that. They want to be responsible for their own country and be a positive contributor to the region and the wider world.

GEN. WILLIS: I endorse what he's-what General Viggers has said. And I-whenever I see the news polls that come out, it says that a lower number of-percentage of the Iraqis want the occupiers to leave. A much greater percentage, a significantly greater percentage, are happy that what has happened has happened. They're looking forward to a bright future.

GEN. CIENIUCH: In my opinion the key issue is the reconstruction process of Iraq, because stabilization operation, it will be early or later finished, but reconstruction process of Iraq will go for many years. And in our sector, we try to organize many-more than 500 different kinds of reconstruction projects. As I said before, it's about 42 million U.S. dollars we invest in this reconstruction, reconstruction projects, especially projects providing assistance to civilian administration, projects connected with infrastructure, water supply, and so on.

REP. COLE: Well again, gentlemen, thank you for your service to your respective countries. And thank you for your countries' partnership in this great international coalition against terror. It's deeply appreciated in the United States. So thank you.