National Defense Authorization Act For Fiscal Year 2010

Floor Speech

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Mr. DURBIN. Mr. President, I rise in opposition to the Thune amendment. The Senator from South Dakota tells us this is a very simple amendment. He tells us his amendment is consistent with self-defense and the reduction of crime.

What the Senator from South Dakota cannot explain is why 400 mayors, the International Association of Chiefs of Police, the Major Cities Police Chiefs Association, and the bipartisan association known as State Legislators Against Illegal Guns oppose this so-called very simple amendment.

Here is why they oppose it. The Thune amendment provides that if a State gives a person a permit to carry concealed weapons, then that person is free to carry concealed weapons in 47 other States and the District of Columbia. Those other States would be required to let this visitor carry a concealed loaded weapon in their State, even if their laws in that State would not currently allow that person to carry a gun.

Let's be clear about the effect of this amendment. There are 36 States with laws governing who can carry concealed weapons, including which out-of-State permits that State will accept, if any. The States already have laws. Under the Thune amendment, those laws can be ignored. So if the Thune amendment becomes law, people who are currently prohibited from carrying concealed guns in those 36 States are free to do so.

It is absurd that we are considering this amendment today. We know nothing about the impact this amendment is actually going to have across America. How many Senators from the 36 States that already have laws governing concealed carry have had a chance to talk to their State law enforcement officials about this amendment and what it means?

Apparently, those who support this amendment want to move it very quickly. We scheduled a hearing--it is supposed to take place tomorrow--on this amendment before the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime. But the Senator from South Dakota did not want to wait for a hearing before the committee. He has asked the Senate to take up this measure today before the hearing date.

Here are some of the reasons this amendment is so troubling. As my colleagues know, we have a federalist system--a government in Washington, a national government, and in each State and the District of Columbia State government and local control. States have adopted different standards in their State with regard to who the State will permit to carry concealed weapons. Each State has considered this issue and decided what is safe for their residents. Elected representatives, elected by the people, have made that decision State by State.

Some States have very rigorous standards. If you want to carry a concealed weapon, for example, a number of States will not allow you to if you are an abuser of alcohol, if you have been convicted of certain misdemeanor crimes or if you have not completed a training course to show you know how to use a gun. The States have established that standard. If you want to go ``packin' '' in these States, you better not be a habitual drunkard; you better not be in a position where you have committed these misdemeanor crimes, and you have to prove by test and sometimes on the range that you can safely use this gun that you want to carry.

In Iowa, you cannot have a permit to carry a weapon if you are addicted to alcohol or if you have a history of repeated acts of violence.

In Pennsylvania, individuals convicted of certain misdemeanor crimes, such as impersonating a police officer, cannot have a concealed carry permit.

In South Carolina, any person who is a member of a subversive organization or a habitual drunkard cannot carry a handgun.

In California, you cannot carry a firearm for 10 years after being convicted of misdemeanors, including assault, battery, stalking, threatening a judge, victim, or witness.

Other States, in contrast, have minimal or no concealed carry standards beyond the baseline of the Federal law which applies to all States.

For example, a number of States, including Georgia, do not require any firearms training for a concealed carry permit. In 2008, a spokesman for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation told a newspaper: ``A blind person can get a permit in Georgia since all you have to do is pass a background check.''

Two States--Alaska and Vermont--do not even require a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Those States let anyone carry a concealed weapon. Under the Thune amendment, people from those States--with virtually no standards for concealed carry or no requirement to prove they know how to use a gun--those people could visit States where they have established standards for the safety of their residents and under the Thune amendment legally carry a gun.

In other words, the visitors can ignore the law of the State--a law the elected representatives of the people in that State have enacted. Some States do little oversight on the concealed carry permits they have issued. In the year 2007, the South Florida Sun Sentinel newspaper found that 1,400 people in Florida had active concealed carry licenses even though they had received sentences--criminal sentences--for major crimes, including assault, sexual battery, child abuse, and manslaughter.

So even in the States where they have established standards for concealed carry, many of them are not keeping an eye on them. There is no oversight. As a consequence, people may be legally carrying in one State which has lax standards in obtaining the permit and no review--virtually no review when it comes to the people who end up with the permits--and that person can travel to another State which has established standards for the safety of their own citizens and under the Thune amendment legally carry a gun.

If the Thune amendment is enacted, States with carefully crafted concealed carry laws must allow concealed carry by out-of-State visitors who may not meet their own State's standards, who may even have sexual battery, child abuse, or manslaughter convictions.

Is that going to make us safer? Do we want in my State--well, Illinois would be an exception because we do not have a concealed carry law. We are one of two States that do not. But for the other 48 States, do we want people traveling across the border who do not meet the basic requirements of knowing how to use a firearm, who do not meet the basic requirements in terms of their own criminal background? Is it so important that everybody carry a gun everywhere or do we want to respect States rights--States rights to determine what is safe in their own State? Why would we want to override some States' standards to allow questionable concealed carry permit holders from States with lower standards or virtually no standards?

It is not necessary for us to adopt this amendment to give individual States the ability to recognize each other's concealed carry permits. The Senator from South Dakota has said his State welcomes all people who have concealed carry permits. But that was their decision. They made that decision in their State. States are free to form concealed carry reciprocity agreements with other States.

Twelve States have already decided to honor conceal and carry permits issued by every other State, obviously including South Dakota. However, 25 other States look carefully at each of the other States and make this decision selectively. They have decided that some States have acceptable standards and some do not. Eleven States and the District of Columbia have chosen not to grant concealed carry reciprocity to any other State. They want their own laws to govern the protection of their own people.

The Thune amendment is a direct assault on those States that have chosen not to allow reciprocity. They are California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nebraska, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, and Rhode Island. Over all, the Thune amendment would override the selective reciprocity or no reciprocity laws of each of the 36 States I have mentioned.

There are good reasons a State might want to be careful with who they allow to carry concealed weapons within their borders. Let me give some examples of what has happened with concealed carry. Washington State resident Clinton Granger obtained a concealed carry permit despite his history of drug addiction and schizophrenia. In May of 2008, Granger was in a fight at a public festival, fired a shot that hit one person in the face, the second person in the wrist, and then lodged in a third person's leg.

Cincinnati resident Geraldine Beasley obtained an Ohio concealed carry permit, even though she had been previously fined for unlawful transportation of a firearm. In August 2007 she shot and killed a panhandler who asked her for 25 cents at a gas station.

In Moscow, ID, resident and Aryan Nation member Jason Kenneth Hamilton was given a concealed carry permit even though he had a domestic violence conviction. In May 2007, Hamilton went on a shooting spree, killing his wife, a police officer, and a church sexton, and wounding three others.

According to the Violence Policy Center, from May 2007 to April 2009, at least seven law enforcement officers were shot and killed by concealed carry permit holders--these are law enforcement officers--and concealed carry holders were charged in the shooting deaths of at least 43 private citizens during that time.

In light of incidents such as these, it is perfectly reasonable for States to decide what the standards will be for concealed carry. The Thune amendment would override this authority of the States and basically say that visitors from States with a concealed carry law don't have to meet the State's standards where they are visiting.

The Thune amendment is troubling because it leaves law enforcement agencies in the dark about the concealed carry population in their own area. In many States, law enforcement plays a key gatekeeper role, an oversight role on the concealed carry population. Under the Thune amendment, that is impossible. The first person who drives in out of State under the Thune amendment may carry a gun and the law enforcement officials wouldn't even have knowledge of it.

When you look at the Thune amendment, along with the amendment offered earlier this year by Senator Ensign that repeals the DC government's local gun laws, we see a disturbing trend. We see Members from that side of the aisle leading an organized effort to strip State and local governments of their ability to keep their own communities safe. There is no justification for this. The Supreme Court's decision in Heller made it clear that although the second amendment right is to be respected in terms of the rights of individuals, there was still authority to deal with this issue of concealed carry. Justice Scalia in the Heller opinion specifically discussed the lawfulness of prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons.

Congress should not require one State's laws to trump another's. New York should not have to let visitors on its city streets be governed by the laws of Alaska when it comes to carrying guns, and it should be up to the State to decide who it will permit to carry concealed weapons within their borders.

This is not a good amendment. America won't be safer if the Thune amendment passes. It has not gone through a hearing in the Senate. The Senator decided to call it up the day before that hearing was set. It guts State laws in 36 States. It will leave law enforcement with no knowledge of who is carrying concealed weapons in their State. It puts guns in the hands of dangerous people who could easily misuse them.

This amendment is opposed by law enforcement organizations, mayors, and State elected officials. I have received letters in opposition to what Senator Thune calls a very simple amendment from the International Association of Chiefs of Police, the Major Cities Police Chief Association, the U.S. Conference of Mayors, a coalition of 400 mayors called Mayors Against Illegal Guns, Chicago Mayor Richard Daley, a group of State attorneys general, including my own Lisa Madigan, the bipartisan Association of State Legislators Against Illegal Guns, and many others.

The amendment has been criticized in many newspapers, including USA Today, the Miami Herald, the Philadelphia Enquirer, the New York Times, the Washington Post, and Baltimore Sun.

This amendment should be defeated. I urge my colleagues to reject it.

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Mr. DURBIN. Mr. President, this morning around Washington, hundreds of lobbyists strapped on their suits and their ties and went to work waiting for the Thune amendment and his theory and their theory on keeping America safer by putting more guns on the street. Across America today, thousands of law enforcement officials strapped on their guns and their badges and went out on those mean streets to risk their lives to keep us safe.

Did you listen to the groups that have endorsed the Thune amendment? Do you know what is missing? Not a single law enforcement group supports John Thune's amendment. The men and women who are risking their lives for our safety every day do not support his amendment. They oppose it. Do you know why they oppose it? Because they realize there are different standards in different States for concealed carry and in some States almost no standards at all. They realize that in 17 States you do not need to even prove you know how to fire a gun safely. And under John Thune's amendment, those people can go into States that require a test or even a test on a firing range--the 31 States that require it--and they can carry a gun without any evidence that they know how to use it.

There are also some 35 States that prohibit people convicted of certain misdemeanor crimes from carrying concealed firearms. That means that 13 other States can send their people in with convictions for these misdemeanors and they can carry a firearm legally under John Thune's amendment.

Let me say, finally, they realize, too, that if you happen to be a drunk driver in a State--17 States--you can still get a concealed carry permit. It does not matter how many times you have been convicted for DUIs, whether you are a habitual drunkard, an alcoholic, you can still get a concealed carry permit in 17 States. Senator Thune wants those people to be able to drive into your State, where you say, frankly, you cannot have a concealed carry permit if you cannot handle alcohol--he wants them to be able to come into those States and to have the right to carry a firearm.

Will that make us safer? The men and women in uniform, who went out this morning and are out there right now protecting us, say no. And that is what we ought to say to the Thune amendment: No.

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